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A Google bot scrapes pricing info by adding items to carts

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Re: A Google bot scrapes pricing info by adding items to carts

#161
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are saying these bot accounts have opted in to receiving emails? You don't validate the email when someone signs up?

The site terms and conditions are displayed very publicaly and accessible to anyone who cares to read them. By entering your email address you are opting-in for transaction related emails, including new order confirmations, shipment notifications, and yes cart reminders. It's spelled out for you. It's the same for almost every ecommerce site. That's different than marketing emails, which require a separate explicit o…

I am not sure what your conception of a dark pattern is, but the idea that adding something to a TOS means it can't be a dark pattern is simply false.

The whole concept of a dark pattern is about UX choices that lead people to agree to things that they don't actually want; it isn't about whether you break your TOS or not.

I am saying, I think that if you asked people point blank "do you want websites to email you reminders if you leave something in the cart?", most people (myself included) would say, "no, I don't want to get that email"

You can put whatever you want in the TOS, but it doesn't mean users like it, and a user agreeing to something doesn't mean they like all the things they are agreeing to.

Whether it is "on me" or not, it is still a dark pattern.

Also, as a user entering my email, I am not promising you that I will always accept email to that address from you. If you try to send me email and I reject it, that is 'on you' to deal with what that rejection does to your spam scores.

Re: A Google bot scrapes pricing info by adding items to carts

#162

This bot is simply trying to get the final price (with tax and shipping) which is ridiculous because e-commerce storefronts should do that in the first place without going through the whole checkout process. I always have found that kind of shady but it's probably known to increase conversions. What I found interesting is that this an open attack vector for e-commerces. Multiple bots can hit a website and start addin…

All EU prices must be tax included. All hospitality prices must include cleaning and service fees. It is only the US were hidden fees and charges may apply and the price regulation, if any, is more tilted towards corporations. Only upfront shipping charge is tricky because it depends on so many factors.

[deleted]

Re: A Google bot scrapes pricing info by adding items to carts

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will bail from the purchasing process on sites that are unwilling to give me a final price before I enter payment information. A postal code should suffice, and I'm not providing more personal information if the site is unwilling to say what I'll be charged upfront.

Isn't that most of them? Unless you assume they eat variable shipping by 'fronting' you a fixed price. Apologies if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.

It is still typical (for which I am thankful), but that seems to be shifting a bit.

A relatively common example would be shops using the Shopify platform.

Re: A Google bot scrapes pricing info by adding items to carts

#164
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The site terms and conditions are displayed very publicaly and accessible to anyone who cares to read them. By entering your email address you are opting-in for transaction related emails, including new order confirmations, shipment notifications, and yes cart reminders. It's spelled out for you. It's the same for almost every ecommerce site. That's different than marketing emails, which require a separate explicit o…

I am not sure what your conception of a dark pattern is, but the idea that adding something to a TOS means it can't be a dark pattern is simply false. The whole concept of a dark pattern is about UX choices that lead people to agree to things that they don't actually want; it isn't about whether you break your TOS or not. I am saying, I think that if you asked people point blank "do you want websites to email you rem…

That's a one-time rejection, and is rightfully treated like an unsubscribe request. No harm done to either party - and the merchant is actually happy since we don't want to bother you. Guess what? Angry customers don't buy your products. Seems intuitive.

You might think people don't want these emails just because you don't want these emails. That's pretty biased.

Ask any ecommerce company - these emails, both marketing and transactional, are wanted by most people shopping on the site. The statistics simply prove your argument is false.

This is a common theme among techies. You don't like something... say ads... so you assume nobody should like them and they should be done away with entirely. That's an absurdly short view of the world.

Re: A Google bot scrapes pricing info by adding items to carts

#165
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This theory doesn't hold up against the test of time. We used to have tyrant monarchs - Genghis Khan would roam the steppe and cutting people's heads off and that would be normal every day life. There are still bad things today, but more people have more rights and a higher quality of life.

> Genghis Khan Genghis Khan was neither a tyrant nor a monarch, nor was cutting off heads a part of his everyday life. He actually got more Mongol people more rights and a higher quality of life. I would request you to read a detailed and accurate account of his life by a historian. For example, Genghis Khan: His Conquests, His Empire, His Legacy by Frank McLynn https://amzn.com/B00X2ZW5ZI

Do you find the following inaccurate or biased, and if so, for the uninformed, briefly why?

"Campaigns initiated in his lifetime include those against the Qara Khitai, Khwarezmia, and the Western Xia and Jin dynasties, and raids into Medieval Georgia, the Kievan Rus', and Volga Bulgaria. These campaigns were often accompanied by large-scale massacres of the civilian populations, especially in the Khwarazmian- and Western Xia–controlled lands. Because of this brutality, which left millions dead, he is considered by many to have been a brutal ruler"

Re: A Google bot scrapes pricing info by adding items to carts

#166
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't. If you mark it as Spam through most email programs, it's reported to the sender (Mandrill in our case) and Mandrill automatically black-lists your email address so we don't continue to send to someone that doesn't want the emails. That's a win-win.

Still an annoying and anti-consumer practice. Another "growth marketing" tactic that doesn't take into account the number of people who never visit that site again because of the spammy stuff.

The overwhelming majority of folks aren't so principled as to black-ball a website they like, selling products they like, from brands they like, and prices they like all because they received a cart reminder email with a special coupon inside.

Maybe you are? Just don't project that onto everyone else.

Re: A Google bot scrapes pricing info by adding items to carts

#167
post #117

The real problem with this is from the merchant side of things. This bot generates thousands of "Abandoned Carts" on one of our sites... thousands... We send cart reminders to Abandoned Carts after a few days, sometimes with a coupon offer to complete checkout. This bot is responsible for thousands of bounced emails each week, which impacts our metrics with Mandrill among other things. Maybe we shouldn't care, but it…

What kind of emails does the bot use?

Re: A Google bot scrapes pricing info by adding items to carts

#168
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure what your conception of a dark pattern is, but the idea that adding something to a TOS means it can't be a dark pattern is simply false. The whole concept of a dark pattern is about UX choices that lead people to agree to things that they don't actually want; it isn't about whether you break your TOS or not. I am saying, I think that if you asked people point blank "do you want websites to email you rem…

That's a one-time rejection, and is rightfully treated like an unsubscribe request. No harm done to either party - and the merchant is actually happy since we don't want to bother you. Guess what? Angry customers don't buy your products. Seems intuitive. You might think people don't want these emails just because you don't want these emails. That's pretty biased. Ask any ecommerce company - these emails, both marketi…

I never said no one wants them; I was very careful to say that I considered it a dark pattern, not that it was a certain dark pattern.

Also, I don't think any amount of statistics is going to be able to show you if people truly want emails or ads... just because they increase sales doesn't mean people want them. Ads can be both effective and unwanted.

Re: A Google bot scrapes pricing info by adding items to carts

#169
post #117

The real problem with this is from the merchant side of things. This bot generates thousands of "Abandoned Carts" on one of our sites... thousands... We send cart reminders to Abandoned Carts after a few days, sometimes with a coupon offer to complete checkout. This bot is responsible for thousands of bounced emails each week, which impacts our metrics with Mandrill among other things. Maybe we shouldn't care, but it…

What kind of emails does the bot use?

johnsmithus95@gmail.com john.smithus74@gmail.com johnsmith.us43@gmail.com

and more variations...

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