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Git Repo of Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests

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Re: Git Repo of Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests

#231

Post by monocasa »

throwvid19 wrote: post #181
monocasa wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I don't see why they're moving the barricades into the protesters when they could move them to the side to let the van through, and explain what they're doing rather than just arresting people out of nowhere. Their actions police here are openly antagonistic, even with the context you've given.

You just identified exactly what OP was asking for: context. I can't hear what the police are saying to the protesters, can you? That's context. The police actions appear mildly questionable, I'll give you that. But we lack context to understand what happened here. The problem here is that both sides are defensive of themselves. This is precisely why understanding context and nuance is important, because each is ince…

Excuse me for not being clear.

Context which justifies the police's actions.

Re: Git Repo of Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests

#232

Post by readme »

seth_tr wrote: post #199
readme wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not go find me three links to instances where the police did acknowledge their mistakes?

I searched google for "police acknowledgement mistake" and several variations. The closest I could find was people calling for the police to acknowledge their mistakes. I can't find the police doing it themselves.

thanks for the due dilligence

edit: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22police%20admit%20to%22

170,000 results

Re: Git Repo of Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests

#234

Post by [deleted] »

alexilliamson wrote: post #93
iamstupidsimple wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't go as far as equating property to human lives, but do remember the vast majority of businesses looted or burned were small, already hurting from Covid-19, and a large number of them black owned. Sure, these people's business owners weren't killed, but everything they worked for during their life is pretty much ruined.

Do you have data supporting the claim that most looted businesses were small?

[deleted]

Re: Git Repo of Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests

#236

Post by int_19h »

SpelingBeeChamp wrote: post #159
Uehreka wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s one thing to say “given there will be crime, and some criminals are violent, cops may have to be violent sometimes to stop criminals”. That’s a pretty bloodless analysis. Let’s get to the fun part: “if cops perceive someone to be a criminal, how violent will we allow them to be, relative to how violent the perceived criminal is?” In the case of the cops assaulting that vigil for Elijah McClain (it was a peaceful…

Serious question: do you think that police officers should have to accept themselves to getting hurt as part of their job? Meaning, that it's actually an expectation the public has of police officers that they will get hurt if someone is fighting with them. To me, that seems like the inevitable consequence of not quickly taking control using decisive force. That's the issue I think exists with 1:1.1 response. It does…

Much of the evidence we're seeing has absolutely nothing to do with "getting hurt as part of their job". At the most extreme, there are cases of bean bags and rubber bullets fired at people filming the police from inside their own homes though closed windows.

Re: Git Repo of Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests

#237

Post by int_19h »

Forbo wrote: post #124
EForEndeavour wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "vast majority of police" turn a blind eye to crimes their coworkers commmit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_wall_of_silence

I appreciate the link to the Wikipedia article, but I don't see anything about statistics indicating a majority. Did I miss something in my perusing of the article? Edit: I was able to pull this citation from a previous discussion regarding police and perjury: Myron W. Orfield, Jr., Deterrence, Perjury, and the Heater Factor, supra note 13, at 83: > Respondents, including prosecutors, estimate that police commit perj…

This is one of those cases where absence of evidence is evidence, to some extent. We do know that police brutality and abuse of power happens regularly, because it gets recorded and prosecuted. But when you look at those prosecutions, the initial evidence rarely comes from other police officers, even though the offending actions are committed around them. If most cops are good cops, you'd expect most such prosecutions to be due to the perpetrators being reported by their colleagues.

We can also look at what happens to cops who do become whistleblowers - it does happen, after all. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any case that ended well for the whistleblower long-term - best case, they get cold shoulder and silent treatment until they resign; and worst case is something like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft

Note, by the way, that in this story, it was basically the entire precinct involved one way or the other to gang up on the whistleblower, including his entire management chain. And if you believe Adrian, then manager involvement went all the way up to NYPD Commissioner. I think at that point, it's not unreasonable to assume that in NYPD, at least, on the balance of probabilities (i.e. more likely than not), "the vast majority of police turn a blind eye" is correct, just based on this one case.

Re: Git Repo of Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests

#238

Post by int_19h »

jquery wrote: post #100
ogre_codes wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can read "Police showed up and fired tear gas and agitated the crowd and caused violence", but you're not told WHY they fired tear gas. You're not given the context as to what happened. Police have body cameras and vehicle cameras that can provide much of the rest of the context. The public doesn't have access to that video and the police don't release it save when it reinforces their narrative. If the police w…

In the current environment, I’m not so sure. I was really negative on the St. Louis couple that pulled guns on protesters... until I learned the “peaceful” protesters were on private property and had already destroyed an iron gate and were threatening to burn down their house. None of those latter facts were easily available until I dug deeper into the story. The New York Times story that shows up when I Google menti…

That protesters "had already destroyed an iron gate" and "were threatening to burn down their house" are both uncorroborated claims by the person who pointed the gun. Which is fine, but here's another person giving their own testimony that the gate was not destroyed at that point:

https://www.facebook.com/kim.mason.716/posts/102190071407824...

And then, of course, that gate isn't destroyed in any of the videos from the scene. There are photos showing a destroyed gate - which looks identical - so it clearly was destroyed at some point. But the relevant question is whether that already happened before the confrontation, and it doesn't look like it did.

As for the guy's claim that he is a BLM supporter - you can judge the veracity of that for yourself, based on this:

https://www.fec.gov/data/receipts/individual-contributions/?...

(and then, perhaps, derive a heuristic to judge his other claims)

Re: Git Repo of Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests

#239

Post by int_19h »

stevehawk wrote: post #188
ogre_codes wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your narrative is correct, then the couple almost certainly would have been served better by documenting the violence and destruction themselves rather than coming off like armed idiots.

i'm not sure that a video camera offers the same line of defense as a firearm when you feel your life is in danger. after all, the incident was a straight up gun standoff with weapons on both sides.

The incident involved the armed woman walking towards the crowd while pointing her handgun at them. It's clearer in some recordings made from a different angle, e.g.:

https://twitter.com/averyrisch/status/1277398535973949440

So no, not a "standoff". Such behavior is certainly sufficient grounds to dismiss any claims of self-defense - lethal force is justified in self-defense when a reasonable person would perceive a threat of imminent death or significant bodily harm; but if you believe something to be a source of such a grave threat, why would you run at it?

Re: Git Repo of Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests

#240

Post by systemvoltage »

SauciestGNU wrote: post #187
throwvid19 wrote: post #185

The number of comments in here that ask for additional/richer data and are being flagged is supremely concerning. I understand that this is a hot issue with very polarized sides, but in what kinds of circumstances is having more data bad , except to intentionally support bias? Please understand that my question is only to understand why, in the context of accumulating data, is trying to obtain more/better data NOT a…

I think context is good and we should be wary of videos that have been edited to remove critical information. However, there is such a large corpus of evidence against the police in these protests, I have to wonder if the people asking for more context are doing so in good faith, or rather to argue for the innocence of the police. Having been personally on the receiving end of police violence during these protests, i…

One thing that comes to my mind (note: I do not support this view) but I am trying to put myself into the opposite party's shoes:

- Listing videos of police brutality during protests without also listing videos of protestors brutally attacking the police perhaps creates a dissonance to the counter party?

I think there have been a few incidents were cops were attacked but they are far and few between, but listing those would help clear the accussation of hypocrisy.

Furthermore, I personally think that we should separate police brutality videos in normal civic life (before the protests began) to gather evidence of systemic violence vs. the enraged/emotionally outraged protests that both sides were not willing to concede. I categorize them as different.

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