Apparently, this guy skipped "Intro to the Theory of Computation" class on the day they covered the concept of Turing completeness. The notion that there is any program that can be written in any other Turing complete language that cannot also be written in one of the Turing complete .NET languages is provably wrong. End of story.
CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers
61–70 of 79 posts
Re: CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers
#62Is this site becoming Slashdot? Visual Studio does have some features that can make you lazy I suppose. ASP.NET web forms does suck, but ASP.NET MVC is good. Is Java supposed to be better than .NET?
Re: CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers
#63This strikes me as the rantings of a CEO who doesn't have any touch with the reality of development. Thanks for the offer, but I wouldn't want to work for you anyway ;) In all seriousness, I just don't buy that .NET is an amateur language that prevents you from doing certain things. C# is a great, rapidly evolving language with a lot of functional programming features built in. On the other hand (as a developer who u…
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Re: CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers
#64"But choosing .NET is a choice, and whenever anybody does it, I can’t help but ask “why?”" Because in certain pockets of the country 90%+ of the jobs are in .NET. "See, Microsoft very intentionally (and very successfully) created .NET to be as different as possible from everything else out there" ? It's almost exactly like java.
I was pretty much a 100% .NET guy before joining Amazon in January. Without reading a book, I was immediately able to start writing Java at Amazon because of how similar it is to C#.
Re: CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers
#65McDonald's has lambdas? Who knew.
Re: CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers
#66> They write everything from assembly to jQuery, on PCs to mobile phones, doing hard core computer graphics to high level social networking. They’ve tried everything. Everything, that is, but .NET. I've written everything from assembly to jQuery and written software in C++ for mobile phones. I'm not a fan of either computer graphics or social networking but I've written a ray-tracer and built a few popular websites.…
Moreover, if you did need 1.7oz burgers (Jesus, what a horrendous analogy), the only thing potentially standing in your way would be your own ignorance of the framework.
Sort of like what's standing between this company and some very talented developers.
Re: CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers
#67Fuck this guy, and everything about him. I can program in Assembly, C, C++, Java, and Lisp fairly competently, but frankly I like C# because I can see results almost as fast as I can imagine them. It has an amazing tool set. Does it really make those other programmers better than me because they prefer needless complexity?
If I need a 1.7oz hamburger, I'll use one of those other tools. But 99% of the time 1.6oz is just fine.
Re: CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
.NET is a pretty good implementation of a Better Java. It doesn't even suffer from some of the cultural problems of Java. (FooDelegatorHandleFactorySingleton...) It is a thoroughly corporate ecosystem, though. The vast majority of .NET programmers are work-a-day IT department developers. There is a lot of deference to MS on tools, language features, and libraries. MS developers will tend to wait for MS to incorporate…
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Hickey -- "Before Clojure, [Rich Hickey] developed dotLisp, a similar project based on the .NET platform." Thus it looks like Rich Hickey was in fact a .NET developer at some point, and so Clojure did, in a way, emerge from the .NET community.
Interesting. I'd never heard of dotLisp. I'd love to know why he decided to move to the JVM.
Re: CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers
#69He should consider switching to a digital tabloid as a writer. He might not be great at recruiting or how to identify great programmers but he seems to have a gift for getting his trolling just right.
Some startup here should take him up on the developer vs developer challenge.
Re: CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers
#70I wish the author of this piece the very best with his squirrel restaurant franchise. Seriously, what the hell is this guy going on about? The fact that large companies that create huge ecosystems also create cookie-cutter ways of doing things? And this is bad? I've coded in just about everything out there except Haskell and Lisp. I've worked with heavy web-centric systems, distributed systems, P2P systems, and so on…
I don't think its a joke, I think the CEO was genuinely trying to share that he had seen a lot of correlation between folks who programmed in .NET and people who weren't a good fit for his company.
I get similar negative vibe when I talk to people who don't use data structures (seriously I interviewed a guy who wrote a frickin' file system that was linear arrays, all the way down)
But it doesn't mean there aren't jobs that aren't a great fit for those folks, and this is where I think a lot of these discussions go off the rails (if you will forgive the pun).
If I am a programmer who loves .NET, and I read this, I can choose to take it in a couple of ways, I can be offended that this guy has just hugely disrespected me and all my .NET lovin' friends, or I can be glad to know that I don't need to bother myself talking to any of his recruiters that are scouring the globe. As I tried early and often to drill into my kids, you can't control what people say but you can control how you choose to feel about it.
"This article shows the worst thing about all of us as programmers: we tend to run on assuming that we are experts in areas where we have the slimmest idea of what the hell we are actually talking about." -- I think what you were trying to say here (but don't let me put words in your mouth) is that it is a mistake for programmer's to take what they know about themselves and to generalize it to everyone else indiscriminately. I would be happy to interview .NET programmers if they were willing to try other methodologies and languages. However I will relate that I have met people who have found God's Own Language (and it varies from person to person which one it is) and refuse to try any other language, or any other development methodology. If that isn't compatible with mine then we both should know that it won't work well.
The author gives a good description of the kind of people he would like to work with, that is valuable because in reading it you can get a feel for whether or not you would like to work with him. So its a win - win.