Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents • Hacker News Board

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#331

Post by foogazi » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 6:57 PM UTC

99_00 wrote: post #234

dennisgorelik wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> mother and children live in Canada When these children grow up - they will pay taxes in Canada. It looks like a good deal for Canada. Even if father's income is taxed in Hong Kong only.

It isn't a good deal for Canadians because we can get immigrants that will contribute to Canada, pay taxes, and have children who will do the same. And many of the children of Hk immigrants will go back to HK to earn more money. They will do whatever is in their best interest.

> They will do whatever is in their best interest.

Just like every other living being

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#332

Post by grey-area » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:00 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #306

grey-area wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They may be disappointed when they discover the rules aren't made in Brussels because the UK joined the EU, but because it's the UK's largest trading partner and the largest trade bloc in the world. Brexit will simply make their position worse.

> but because it's the UK's largest trading partner and the largest trade bloc in the world. The North American trade bloc (NAFTA/USMCA) is actually slightly bigger by both GDP and population, though the EU is, yes, the UK’s biggest trade partner.

OK second largest. It makes them a formidable interlocutor in negotiations, and the power imbalance means things will inevitably be decided in Berlin which impact the UK on regulations, trade, tariffs and FOM. The UK has little leverage and power in this relationship.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#333

Post by nangz » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:01 PM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #216

harikb wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether UK citizens approve this or not, logistical challenge of making this happen is immense. I think UK politicians know this is just a threat. Moving people & jobs physically to UK, when people have physical investment in a house, school, bank accounts, investments is not easy. I can see people moving if CCP is literally killing non-protesting citizens like holocaust. On top of it, what is to prevent CCP from blo…

To be honest I think that the Chinese government would not care or actually be quite OK with it. Indeed, who would leave HK? Arguably the anti-CCP, the "troublemakers". So that'd mean less 'trouble' in HK and there is a large supply of mainlanders happy to move to HK. Obviously the Chinese government will officially be outraged but privately they may think good riddance.

Talking to a Chinese friend who is quite pro-CCP, they are pissed that UK is offering this and say that mass emigration of HKers would be a major loss of face for the CCP.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#334

Post by nangz » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:05 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #6

If I was China, I would love for the US and the UK to take the law-aware and dissident people off my hands.

Talking to a Chinese friend who is quite pro-CCP, they are pissed that UK is offering this and say that mass emigration of HKers would be a major loss of face for the CCP.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#335

Post by qqn » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:08 PM UTC

gentleman11 wrote: post #225

99_00 wrote: post #198

I live in Vancouver. The pattern for many Hong Kong immigrants is to have the mother and children live in Canada while the father works in HK.The family doesn't declare the foreign income in Canada. So they enjoy the benefits of a low tax HK income. And they get all the nice things that go with living in high tax Canada while not contributing to it -free healthcare, subsided University, safe communities, clean enviro…

Canada, in general, is famous for massive tax loopholes and hiding income. It is not really a hk issue and is in the news on its own “merits” all the time. There are so many wealthy Canadians avoiding taxes that apparently the national debt could be cleared if we could find a way to make them pay

Yes, also so common that it has a name: https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_washing

"The global elite, as well as criminals and foreigners avoiding economic sanctions, can set up shell companies to 'make suspect transactions seem legitimate' under the cover of Canada's reputation for fiscal integrity."

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#336

Post by nailer » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:08 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #271

nailer wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. As anyone with an interest in politics in the UK will tell you, free movement literally ended yesterday.

They'd be wrong. A bill passed its 3rd reading in house of commons. It needs to get through the House of Lords. It still has some way before becoming law. https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/passage-bill/common... And when the UK crashes out of EU with no deal we'll inevitably re-allow free movement of EU workers because we have no bargaining power.

You're right. It needs to go through Lords. It will.

Regarding your last sentence: leaving no-deal off the table, and this being unable to walk away, would have meant we have no bargaining power.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#337

Post by nailer » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:10 PM UTC

nailer wrote: post #249

arethuza wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claim that Turkey was soon going to join the EU (which isn't going to happen) and flood the country with Turkish immigrants was a major component of vote leave messaging: "Turkey/NHS/£350 million". Edit: FYI Dominic Cummings actually blogged about the important of Turkey to their success: https://dominiccummings.com/2017/01/09/on-the-referendum-21-...

To be fair Angela Merkel flooded Germany with millions of immigrants from the middle East.

Here's a source if you need one: https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/europes-border-crisis/germ...

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#338

Post by kyboren » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:11 PM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #124

eggsnbacon1 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has and will be debated forever. Given the choice though, I think its much clearer that letting in wealthy educated people is a net benefit.

Your belief does not make it a reality. Studies have shown that all kinds of immigration greatly benefits host countries, and especially aging Western ones with declining populations.

I don't think that's exactly what eggsnbacon1 was saying.

It may be true that all kinds of immigration greatly benefit host countries in the long term, but this is more debatable than that allowing wealthy, liberal, educated immigrants is a net benefit to host countries.

We can argue about the long-term benefits of open borders. I don't believe eggsnbacon1 was stating a position there--more like pointing out that there are some short-term costs that generate popular pushback. But ushering in the cream of the crop is obviously beneficial; it's a no-brainer.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#339

Post by muro » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:26 PM UTC

mnm1 wrote: post #276

TimTheTinker wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m really curious: what is your experience that you’re referring to?

Eastern bloc country. Grandfather tortured for being a priest after his house got confiscated and family ran out of town. My other grandfather had a similar experience but got his house back eventually. Constant persecution. Fear of anyone who was not family because they could be spies for the state. Food rationing. 6 day workweek. Bribe doctors so you don't die on the operating table and everyone else too. Can't rea…

My grandfather spend time in jail as well (also a priest), in uranium mines. That was a favorite for "enemies of the state".

Apart from reading in public and murderous hate for the president, can relate to everything you wrote. Never been to China to comment.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#340

Post by delecti » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:53 PM UTC

hungryhobo wrote: post #200

delecti wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government they made the contract with didn't even exist anymore. The Qing Empire made that contract with the UK. Independence or just keeping HK in the UK both make at least as much sense as giving it to a country that didn't even exist when the contract was formed.

So if country A asks for a loan, then immediately dissolve its government and form a new one, should the loan be forgiven?

That's a wildly different situation for a couple reasons. The debt is in the opposite direction, and the UK had HK for 100 years, not "immediately". It's not really a relevant thought experiment.