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Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#151

Post by starfallg »

chosenbreed37 wrote: post #118
starfallg wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it is better to live in a liberal as opposed to an authoritarian system, but this type of thinking (an inherent inevitability of liberalism to win over authoritarianism) breeds complacency and can ultimately be the downfall of western liberal democracy. There is no guarantee that the system that is more just will win out. That's the reason why we have to do everything we can to make sure that liberal democr…

I'm not sure we need to impede authoritarianism or any other form of government. It is more than likely that level of investment that has gone into China over the last few decades have put the country in the a strong position. But I think the CCP and the Chinese people in general can take a lot of credit for what they have achieved. And to my point...if the end result is rising incomes for all, better life expectancy…

>if the end result is rising incomes for all, better life expectancy and an overall better quality of life does it matter that it came about through an authoritarian regime?

And when this growth ends, what will happen? An authoritarian system is able to withstand challenges with the full power of the state behind it. People that dissent are crushed, and many times the people that dissent do so with the most honourable of intentions. Viewed under the prism of authoritarianism this matters not. It's a system that remains not because of consent and merit, but ultimately due to suppression of dissent.

Just because China is able to catch-up some of the growth that it completely missed out on due to the turmoil of the Communist revolution and the turbulent 50s and 60s, doesn't validate this system one bit. Other countries were ahead of China, with more growth and sustainability, minus the cruelty.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#152

Post by vertex-four »

derision wrote: post #128
entropea wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the authoritarian right which includes US liberals. The left doesn't even exist worldwide except in extremely small insignificant numbers pumped up by media to create new red scare conditions among the population. The left has been crushed for the last 40+ years by the authoritarian right and has absolutely no backbone. The authoritarian right runs the gig, the authoritarian right creates the violence. Edit: DSA,…

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Yes, but it's a lot more distributed. It's people being assaulted in public spaces for being in any way different. It's the bathroom bills encouraging people to assault people in bathrooms based on nothing but perceived trans status - and then this actually happening. I've suffered both in a country where I theoretically have protections, and I am aware that my friends in the US have suffered worse. I am not going to go into what folk outside my communities suffer from, but I imagine it's not a whole lot better.

This isn't violence based on stating an opinion - it's violence based on simply daring to exist in a public space.

There's very little news coverage of it because it's "small" things - assaults that leave bruises and not much more, but which the victims know mean they're not welcome in the public spaces everybody else takes for granted - that happen all the time to people minding their own business, and this is and has been the norm for a very long time.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#153

Post by growlist »

reallydontask wrote: post #15
akerro wrote: post #5

Is this an attempt to fill immigration gaps after EU immigration collapses? I don't believe the government actually cares about anything that going on in HK.

It's hard to say what this government cares about. My cynical self thinks that this is not a genuine offer but one for the headlines in a time where good news are sorely needed (Leicester lockdown, general covid-19 omnishambles) I hope my cynical self is wrong

Let's not forget there are still deeply embittered anti-Brexit forces prevalent throughout the public sector.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#154

Post by magicsmoke »

woodpanel wrote: post #132
magicsmoke wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's if their children don't assimilate and forget their HK identity. Children of Asian migrants in anglophone countries losing touch with their language and heritage is a very common phenomenon. Actually that raises an interesting comparison with the Tibetan diaspora that mostly left during around 1950. How many of their descendants growing up in India/US/UK still know how to speak Tibetan?

True. IMO assimilation isn't a bad thing, rather an indicator of a culture they bring with them which is accustomed to concepts of citizenry (or even more evolved) and the state (confucianism?).

Assimilation means the next generation won't be willing to fight the the memories of a HK half a world and century away. Also, most of the Asian diaspora in the anglophone sphere assimilate simply because there's not enough population, not because of some special cultural quality. 5% of the US is Asian American, and that's divided among all the different Asian nations. The Asian diaspora in Southeast Asia do a much better job of preserving their languages and culture.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#155

Post by csomar »

arethuza wrote: post #115
barneygale wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hong Kong was a British colony until 1997.

About a quarter of the world has been a British colony at some point!

Hong Kong is very British, though. Most of the other colonized parts are not (Exceptions maybe Canada, NZ and Australia). But traveling from Hong Kong to Shenzhen, you can feel that there is a significant culture gap.

Also Hong Kong appears to have lots of British banking connections like HSBC and Standard Chartered.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#156

Post by mjw1007 »

sct202 wrote: post #25

It's interesting to see how proactive a lot of developed countries are being with getting ready to welcome refugees from Hong Kong, especially compared to the Syrian crisis a few years ago.

Many of the richer English-speaking Hong Kong residents send their children to school in England (or at any rate did thirty years ago).

And the schools they were sent to are largely the same as the schools that the people who run the UK went to (at least when there's a Conservative government).

So when the cabinet visualise "someone from Hong Kong", they think "one of us".

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#157

Post by derision »

vertex-four wrote: post #152
derision wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yes, but it's a lot more distributed. It's people being assaulted in public spaces for being in any way different. It's the bathroom bills encouraging people to assault people in bathrooms based on nothing but perceived trans status - and then this actually happening. I've suffered both in a country where I theoretically have protections, and I am aware that my friends in the US have suffered worse. I am not going to…

[flagged]

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#158

Post by growlist »

ben_w wrote: post #116
blibble wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Before, we could at least try to get the EU to go to bat for our interests, and have a real impact. the same EU that rewrote its coronavirus report several times in fear of CCP repercussions? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/world/europe/disinformati... come on

They said “try”. Rest of the EU might have said “no”, but now the EU hasn’t got any more reason to listen to the UK than to listen to, say, Australia’s opinion about Hong Kong. Then there is also the reduced power of the EU post-Brexit. Just because Brexit costs the UK influence doesn’t mean it doesn’t cost the EU too — without the UK, the EU is only about 85% of the GDP of the other two big trade giants (the USA and…

But there's no reason that an independent UK and the EU cannot work together where their interests align, is there? The idea that it's all or nothing is nothing more than yet another canard put about by anti-Brexit protagonists.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#159

Post by growlist »

rat9988 wrote: post #144
growlist wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Educated, entrepreneurial, hard working, law abiding, socially conservative, respectful of their host. Who wouldn't welcome migrants like this?

You mean rich migrants I guess.

Well, the rich ones are certainly more welcome than the stabby ones.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#160

Post by Veen »

nly wrote: post #87
sampo wrote: post #67

68% of conservative voters, 71% of labour voters, and 77% of libdem voters support this. https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/0...

Surprising isn't it, given how much of a driving force EU immigration was in the Brexit debate.

It wasn’t so much the fact of immigration, but the lack of control over immigration.
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