China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

Post by av_engr » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 2:21 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #92

av_engr wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly what the US just did now? (Removal of special economic and political status) HK receive "Special" treatment in many ways for being NOT really China. They are economically treated different from China and in someway exempt from certain export control restriction. Also, HK is handed over to China on the basis of the 1984 Sino-British joint declaration. It's not a one and done deal. 50 years of no change is one…

> Also, HK is handed over to China on the basis of the 1984 Sino-British joint declaration. It's not a one and done deal. 50 years of no change is one of the basis on the handover, and China is breaking it right now. It is a one-and-done deal unless you believe that Britain is willing to wage war on China over it.

Post by thaumasiotes » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:08 AM UTC

av_engr wrote: post #181

thaumasiotes wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, HK is handed over to China on the basis of the 1984 Sino-British joint declaration. It's not a one and done deal. 50 years of no change is one of the basis on the handover, and China is breaking it right now. It is a one-and-done deal unless you believe that Britain is willing to wage war on China over it.

You don't have to wage a war upon a broken treaty. China even complained that UK was considering giving path to citizenship to British National Oversea passport holders. Many things can be done. Point is, an international treaty is broken and it doesn't make sense to justify because "china is big and powerful", we need to hold China accountable (and US/UK/western countries definitely have the power to do so)

Post by koonsolo » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:00 AM UTC

simonh wrote: post #175

koonsolo wrote: post #157

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> The key difference is that the USA has a reputation to protect. It has so many allies, both military and economic, that if it sells out one of them for purely transactional gain, it weakens it's relationships with all it's other partners. You do know about the industrial espionage by Echelon, right? On that front that pretty much puts US in the same bucket as China. Only 1 example of many: "In 1999, Enercon, a Germ…

Yes I know about it. Allies have always engaged in snooping and peripheral intelligence operations against each other. As long as it doesn’t go after vital national interests, or involve really nasty stuff like killings and such, it’s just part of the rough and tumble of international affairs. You have to look at the full picture, not get hung up over single incidents. Note German intelligence wasn’t so much complain…

Post by hkmaxpro » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:33 PM UTC

boomboomsubban wrote: post #174

hkmaxpro wrote: post #168

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> Look at Hong Kong protests, then look at police beating people in cities across the US it’s the same. > What are the concessions from the US government? A few minor police reforms to encourage cops to stop killing minorities on camera, qualified immunity is still here, so basically nothing. US’s reaction is hugely different than HK’s. Not a single HK cop was actually penalized, let alone fired or charged, for their…

>And you tell me US is the same as HK? You are comparing what happened in one city against what happened across the entire country. Look at the actions of the NYPD during these protests. They have also received virtually no punishment despite their range of heinous acts. An occasional incident nationwide that drives up enough outrage to force a punishment doesn't grant us some moral high ground.

Post by koheripbal » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:59 PM UTC

archibaldJ wrote: post #179

koheripbal wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the incentive for someone to "confront" the system in China? It means imprisonment, career destruction, the destruction of their family's wealth and well-being, and possibly death. The way to change a belligerent governmental system isn't through direct confrontation unless you can literally mobilize a majority of the population - it is by changing it from within. Become part of the system, spread an ideology…

“Be extremely subtle even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate.” ― Sun Tzu I speak not of confrontation with the central government but confrontation with many aspects of the things in "the system" that currently underlines and defines how the cerntral government thinks and operates. The ambiguities introduced…