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Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#61

Post by mnm1 »

TrueDuality wrote: post #32
joaomacp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty soon the law-abiding and obedient people will become aware that life outside of authoritarianism is better and safer, and they will either run away or revolt.

It's very hard to give up your home, your friends, your connections, and potentially your family even if you have an opportunity for a better life. Yes, a lot of those connections can potentially move to the same city & country as you but will your neighbor still be your neighbor? Will the bar at the end of the street you go to after a hard day still be there and know exactly what you want when you walk through the d…

Better than being ruled by communists, that's for damn sure. That was my experience, anyway.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#62

Post by ed25519FUUU »

sasum wrote: post #54
daemin wrote: post #40

I would have said that returning Hong Kong back to China was one of the biggest mistakes the UK has made, but here we are in 2020. It would have been better if they made it into an independent city state like Singapore.

Not a very savory opinion to say "I wish colonialism had gone even further".

I bet the residents of HK are going to bed thinking that tonight.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#63

Post by qubex »

tobzuts wrote: post #2

Typical shoddy journalism. Bandies numbers about: '150.000', 'up to 3 million' , when talking about the numbers likely to qualify to come to UK but never actually tells us what the population of Hong Kong is in the first place. So is this everyone?... 50% of the population?... 25%?.. 10%?...

Helpful hint: I find it very telling to mentally replace “up to” with “at most”. It’s the exact same inequality but sometimes (though not always) totally changes the emotional tone of a piece. The other thing is it never ceases to highlight the need for a lower bound. I think journalists (whether deliberately or unconsciously I cannot say, besides it isn’t relevant) use the term “up to X” to simultaneously proclaim the worst-case scenario AND use it to anchor your expectations (basically you become convinced that the worst case scenario is the most likely outcome because that’s the only information you have, whereas if you tell yourself “up to X” you immediately ask yourself “yeah okay but starting from what?” and the lack of knowledge is at least made explicit).

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#64

Post by entropea »

sct202 wrote: post #25

It's interesting to see how proactive a lot of developed countries are being with getting ready to welcome refugees from Hong Kong, especially compared to the Syrian crisis a few years ago.

I bet we'll see nearly no refugees from Hong Kong when data starts appearing in a few years.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#65

Post by freddie_mercury »

eggsnbacon1 wrote: post #31
sct202 wrote: post #25

It's interesting to see how proactive a lot of developed countries are being with getting ready to welcome refugees from Hong Kong, especially compared to the Syrian crisis a few years ago.

Hong Kong was a British colony for generations and is still strongly influenced by western culture. Probably why China has such an obsession with crushing it. Adopting HK citizens is a far easier sell than Syrians. They already speak English, are highly educated, wealthy, westernized, and have special status in UK law. Letting a ton of refugees in is a large burden on the host country. They don't share British cultur…

> Adopting HK citizens is a far easier sell than Syrians. They already speak English

No they don't. According to the Hong Kong government's 2011 census only 41% of residents spoke English moderately well (not even fluently, just moderately well). 20% reported not being able to speak any English whatsoever; not even a few sentences.

Only 57% of residents of Hong Kong considered themselves "bilingual".

Only 30% of students attended an EMI school (English as a Medium of Instruction).

And I doubt the numbers have become more favorable to English in the decade since that census.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#66

Post by woodpanel »

swarnie_ wrote: post #44
daemin wrote: post #40

I would have said that returning Hong Kong back to China was one of the biggest mistakes the UK has made, but here we are in 2020. It would have been better if they made it into an independent city state like Singapore.

If you don't return something at the end of a contract is that theft? or piracy? Its not like the UK had a choice. We're you expecting them to go all Hawaii on the situation and just annex it?

While the reasoning resonates with me, it does have undertones of whataboutism in it: Do I really expect CPC-historians to label colonial era contracts to be legitimate?

Anyways, Singapore's independence wasn't a given either, they had to fight for theirs from "the mother land" as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_in_Malaysia

Edit: I stand corrected - Not "to fight". However, the point being (as with Belize, Israel, India or other colonies which became independent) by no means was it clear what entities were to became out of its former colonies.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#68

Post by [deleted] »

entropea wrote: post #34
nieksand wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advocating for Hong Kong independence can also earn you a life sentence: "Crimes of secession, subversion, terrorism and collusion with foreign forces are punishable by a maximum sentence of life in prison" I'm not sure if criticizing Chairman Xi or the CCP would qualify as subversion.

Aren't there also similar laws like that in USA? People are being recommended life sentences for throwing a molotov at an empty police vehicle during these George Floyd protests and are being labeled as terrorists by Trump. https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/17/us/brooklyn-molotov-lawyers-p...

[deleted]

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#69

Post by ViViDboarder »

swarnie_ wrote: post #44
daemin wrote: post #40

I would have said that returning Hong Kong back to China was one of the biggest mistakes the UK has made, but here we are in 2020. It would have been better if they made it into an independent city state like Singapore.

If you don't return something at the end of a contract is that theft? or piracy? Its not like the UK had a choice. We're you expecting them to go all Hawaii on the situation and just annex it?

Apparently contracts between nations don’t mean much given this situation we’re in is because China is violating one.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#70

Post by throwaway1997 »

delecti wrote: post #59
swarnie_ wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't return something at the end of a contract is that theft? or piracy? Its not like the UK had a choice. We're you expecting them to go all Hawaii on the situation and just annex it?

The government they made the contract with didn't even exist anymore. The Qing Empire made that contract with the UK. Independence or just keeping HK in the UK both make at least as much sense as giving it to a country that didn't even exist when the contract was formed.

It may have made sense technically but China has a huge army and HK is dependent on water, electricity and food which comes from the mainland. The mainland government made very clear that if HK wasn't returned, they would cut off the water supply.
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