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Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#51

Post by eggsnbacon1 »

crobertsbmw wrote: post #43
eggsnbacon1 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hong Kong was a British colony for generations and is still strongly influenced by western culture. Probably why China has such an obsession with crushing it. Adopting HK citizens is a far easier sell than Syrians. They already speak English, are highly educated, wealthy, westernized, and have special status in UK law. Letting a ton of refugees in is a large burden on the host country. They don't share British cultur…

After reading Open Borders by Bryan Cahlan, I’m convinced that if there is a burden on the host country it’s temporary. Long term, I think the host country has much more to gain than to lose.

This has and will be debated forever. Given the choice though, I think its much clearer that letting in wealthy educated people is a net benefit.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#52

Post by entropea »

derision wrote: post #37
entropea wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why I'm trying to move out of the USA.

Because of the rise of the authoritarian left spreading fear across the country with violence and looting?

No, the authoritarian right which includes US liberals. The left doesn't even exist worldwide except in extremely small insignificant numbers pumped up by media to create new red scare conditions among the population. The left has been crushed for the last 40+ years by the authoritarian right and has absolutely no backbone.

The authoritarian right runs the gig, the authoritarian right creates the violence.

Edit: DSA, arguably the USA's largest, most mainstream true left group is only ~65,000 members across the nation. Quite tiny. I've been to bigger soccer matches.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/05/dsa-gro...

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#54

Post by sasum »

daemin wrote: post #40

I would have said that returning Hong Kong back to China was one of the biggest mistakes the UK has made, but here we are in 2020. It would have been better if they made it into an independent city state like Singapore.

Not a very savory opinion to say "I wish colonialism had gone even further".

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#55

Post by starfallg »

joaomacp wrote: post #22
whatshisface wrote: post #6

If I was China, I would love for the US and the UK to take the law-aware and dissident people off my hands.

Pretty soon the law-abiding and obedient people will become aware that life outside of authoritarianism is better and safer, and they will either run away or revolt.

Of course it is better to live in a liberal as opposed to an authoritarian system, but this type of thinking (an inherent inevitability of liberalism to win over authoritarianism) breeds complacency and can ultimately be the downfall of western liberal democracy.

There is no guarantee that the system that is more just will win out. That's the reason why we have to do everything we can to make sure that liberal democracy works and to impede authoritarianism in all its forms and guises. The CCP should never have had the amount of international investment and export markets it has had, given the overall strategy of the party to hoard power and crush dissent.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#57

Post by woodpanel »

TrueDuality wrote: post #32
joaomacp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty soon the law-abiding and obedient people will become aware that life outside of authoritarianism is better and safer, and they will either run away or revolt.

It's very hard to give up your home, your friends, your connections, and potentially your family even if you have an opportunity for a better life. Yes, a lot of those connections can potentially move to the same city & country as you but will your neighbor still be your neighbor? Will the bar at the end of the street you go to after a hard day still be there and know exactly what you want when you walk through the d…

And of course: Beijing will label the emmigrants as home-abandoning traitors.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#58

Post by spuz »

dan1234 wrote: post #8
tobzuts wrote: post #2

Typical shoddy journalism. Bandies numbers about: '150.000', 'up to 3 million' , when talking about the numbers likely to qualify to come to UK but never actually tells us what the population of Hong Kong is in the first place. So is this everyone?... 50% of the population?... 25%?.. 10%?...

A quick Google would tell you the population of Hong Kong is 7,500,700 (2019 estimate).

The point is that from a journalistic point of view the number of people eligible for citizenship is meaningless without the context of either the population of Hong Kong or of the UK or perhaps the number of immigrants the UK typically sees from Hong Kong and other countries. It's very common in articles to see numbers that have no meaning without context. Either the context should be provided or the numbers should not be mentioned.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#59

Post by delecti »

swarnie_ wrote: post #44
daemin wrote: post #40

I would have said that returning Hong Kong back to China was one of the biggest mistakes the UK has made, but here we are in 2020. It would have been better if they made it into an independent city state like Singapore.

If you don't return something at the end of a contract is that theft? or piracy? Its not like the UK had a choice. We're you expecting them to go all Hawaii on the situation and just annex it?

The government they made the contract with didn't even exist anymore. The Qing Empire made that contract with the UK. Independence or just keeping HK in the UK both make at least as much sense as giving it to a country that didn't even exist when the contract was formed.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#60

Post by Veen »

sasum wrote: post #54
daemin wrote: post #40

I would have said that returning Hong Kong back to China was one of the biggest mistakes the UK has made, but here we are in 2020. It would have been better if they made it into an independent city state like Singapore.

Not a very savory opinion to say "I wish colonialism had gone even further".

In theory perhaps, but in reality when the choice is between two Empires, people have often embraced the one that they perceive as less harmful to their interests. An independent Hong Kong was never a realistic prospect.
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