Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#31

Post by gizmo » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 2:57 PM UTC

bluesign wrote: post #13

To be honest this rule is for a reason. Onboarding people without price, then telling them about price certainly will increase your retention, but not the best case from consumer side. From twitter they say: “ We've experimented with auto-charging trials in the past and they lead to (1) fewer users trying the product (2) a huge number of refund requests by users who forget to cancel and (3) complete disbelief from th…

If the issue is that app developers are not upfront about pricing then the solution is to tell app developers to be more upfront about pricing.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#32

Post by ryukafalz » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 2:58 PM UTC

Is it just me or does this seem like it might be a blow back at Hey? They got their app into the app store by creating temporary trial accounts[0], but they still don't bill through Apple or accept signups through the app. This seems like a way to force them to do so.

[0] https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/22/21298552/apple-hey-email-...

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#33

Post by hellofunk » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:05 PM UTC

berkes wrote: post #19

iandanforth wrote: post #11

The comments here read like people with Stockholm syndrome.

There certainly seems a bias for Apple in here. What I really don't understand is why Some Random Hacker feels the need to jump into a thread and defend Apple, one of the wealthiest companies in the world.

It’s because without the voice of reason to help balance things out, there would be a strong misleading conception that everything about being a developer on Apple’s platforms is 100 percent negative, but this is certainly far from the truth. There are pros and cons, I don’t think it’s necessarily better or worse than developing on other platforms. The advantages outweigh the negatives much of the time.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#34

Post by berkes » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:08 PM UTC

mtnGoat wrote: post #28

berkes wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There certainly seems a bias for Apple in here. What I really don't understand is why Some Random Hacker feels the need to jump into a thread and defend Apple, one of the wealthiest companies in the world.

Wealth does not dictate right or wrong nor the need to defend it. Why would someone's income matter anymore then race or religion when it comes to choosing a side in a billing related conversation?

I mentioned "wealthiest" as indication for how powerful the company is. It can very well defend itself. Wealthy people can too.

As opposed to minorities (race religion) or people without any means (poor, non-wealthy).

But why do you bring race or religion in here? I was talking about a company. A company has no race. It has no religion. Well, maybe, seeing people in HN threads defending apple, it does have similarities with religions.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#35

Post by m3kw9 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:13 PM UTC

So you promised a 1 month free trial, and after one month you either disable the app, or not charge and let them continue their free trial. Either is allowed or makes sense.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#36

Post by northerdome » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:13 PM UTC

kemayo wrote: post #9

Apple's approach isn't as bad as this title makes it sound. Mostly because they're aggressive communicators about subscription billing -- they send emails well in advance of any subscription renewal, telling you when you'll be billed, how much for, and giving you a link to cancel the subscription. Makes me feel this isn't them hoping you'll just forget and be billed. In fact, I'd suspect this is intended as a user-fr…

I have forgotten to cancel subscriptions from iTunes a few times as I tend to watch my CC statement for forgotten subscriptions, not Apple Free Trial emails. The real issue is that they make it impossible to get a refund once you as a customer have been charged even when the app developer agrees to give you one. Being forced to delegate billing to a robotic corporation that treats your customers like robots is a terrible position to force developers in to.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#37

Post by rgovostes » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:14 PM UTC

warp wrote: post #20

rgovostes wrote: post #16

Is it really that they are forcing them to implement auto-billing, or that they are forcing the trial to go through standard App Store mechanisms? Is it anti-consumer to make all subscriptions behave the same? Suppose half of apps managed their own trial period and half of them used auto-renewing App Store trials. Also worth noting it is really, really trivial to cancel an app subscription from within your Settings,…

> Also worth noting it is really, really trivial to cancel an app subscription from within your Settings, and to see much of the trial period is remaining. I think for most people it's pretty hard to find. It's not actually in Settings. You have to open the App Store, click your face, and that screen has a "Subscriptions >" menu item. I don't subscribe/purchase that much stuff on iOS, so it always takes me a while to…

For the sake of those who don't use iOS: When you start a trial you also receive an email, subject "Your Subscription Confirmation," which says:

> You’ve purchased the following subscription with a 1‑week free trial:

    Subscription          Apple TV+
    Date of Purchase      May 16, 2020
    Introductory Offer    Free for 1 week
    Renewal Price         $4.99/month starting May 23, 2020
    Payment Method        Store Credit

> No commitment. Your subscription automatically renews for $4.99/month starting May 23, 2020 until canceled. To avoid being charged, you must cancel at least a day before each renewal date.

> To learn more or cancel, [review your subscription](link to unsubscribe).

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#38

Post by m3kw9 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:15 PM UTC

gizmo wrote: post #26

kemayo wrote: post #9

Apple's approach isn't as bad as this title makes it sound. Mostly because they're aggressive communicators about subscription billing -- they send emails well in advance of any subscription renewal, telling you when you'll be billed, how much for, and giving you a link to cancel the subscription. Makes me feel this isn't them hoping you'll just forget and be billed. In fact, I'd suspect this is intended as a user-fr…

Hold up, the point of the trial is so people can try the app for free. Then, after having tried the app, users can choose to pay. Or not. There is no issue about misleading customers here, because many apps promise features that don't work well or have other problems and the only ways for the user to figure out if an app is worth it is by (a) reading reviews and (b) trying it, and that will result in an informed deci…

Because Apple forbids an app to be disabled or not function, if the customer chooses no, what happens? It’s disabled.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#39

Post by mariopt » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:15 PM UTC

numbers wrote: post #10

I don’t see why this is even a complaint... Apple sends users notifications before the trial ends and you can easily just cancel. I guess apps I’ve used already have this auto-billing implemented because I don’t think I’ve confirmed my subscription after the free trial ended and billing began.

How about using a trial and not having to worry about forgetting to cancel?

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#40

Post by _jal » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 3:17 PM UTC

iandanforth wrote: post #11

The comments here read like people with Stockholm syndrome.

Subscriptions mean I purchase far less software. This is an empirical observation - my personal software spending is down something like 80% over the last couple years, and it is due to the friction of subscriptions.

The main thing is I do not like assigning myself future decisions, especially about money, and I don't like ongoing financial obligations.

I'm not saying this is strictly rational; I'm sure there are times I've paid way more for software than a sub for the duration of my use would have been.

But it is true - the friction of the ongoing obligation means software has to cross a much higher bar before I don't go find a different way to solve my problem.

I realize the switch makes software companies more stable, etc. All true, and it has zero to do to my decision making.