California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste • Hacker News Board

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#321

Post by piker » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 10:43 AM UTC

randomguy2379 wrote: post #320

piker wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are born to servant parents and study hard to become a doctor, you end up at the top of the caste system. I think this is the opposite of a caste system.

It's the opposite of the hindu caste system, but pretty much in line with the british caste system where caste is based on profession and not by birth.

It seems you're seeking to define a "British caste system" by reference to the Hindu caste system minus the Hindu caste system's defining feature. You're ending up with something like a meritocracy. It's not clear what point you're making other than "I don't like the Hindu caste system".

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#322

Post by Bang2Bay » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 10:43 AM UTC

sumedh wrote: post #313

throwaway781341 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are painting only one sided picture and that's obvious from username you have chosen. India has 1bn+ people, you can't generalize this. There are bunch of Brahmin people at higher level who actively work to uplift others and they do this without being atheist. There are 12 types of beliefs defined in Indian spirituality, it's not binary as in atheist vs believer. Also, food for thought - are all Brahmins in India…

> India has 1bn+ people, you can't generalize this. Have you seen the matrimonial ads in India? Why am I getting a feeling that you are a Brahmin and you are not happy that people from lower castes have their own quotas in govt jobs/education.

> Why am I getting a feeling that you are a Brahmin is this NOT caste discrimination? 'feel' a person to be a brahmin and victimize ?

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#323

Post by saiya-jin » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 10:45 AM UTC

randomguy2379 wrote: post #308

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #273

I’ve got a “hot button” about castes. I hate ‘em. Comes from growing up overseas (I live in the US), and having servants. These were the people that raised us, and were, for all intents and purpose, “family.” Except they weren’t, and when I found out how they lived, it broke my heart. I was also raised by a British mother, who was an awesome woman, but came from a middle-class Liverpool (“scouse”) family, and spent h…

As someone who was born a lower caste hindu, I don't really mind the british caste system at all. Because the british caste system is fluid. If you are born to servant parents and study hard to become a doctor, you end up at the top of the caste system. Not in Hinduism. Even if you become a doctor, but were born a dalit(lowest caste), you will remain a dalit and so will your future generations. There is no escape fro…

While I get what you mean, to somebody who spent whole life in pretty egalitarian society it still sounds pretty horrible. You get much better working society overall when this kind of shit isn't there. If whole society prospers, everybody gets the benefits in many ways.

I've spent 6 months backpacking all over india in 2008 and 2010, and what I saw there broke my heart many times. The frequent kindness of the poorest folks on top of their misfortunes was very inspiring though

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#324

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 10:45 AM UTC

randomguy2379 wrote: post #308

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #273

I’ve got a “hot button” about castes. I hate ‘em. Comes from growing up overseas (I live in the US), and having servants. These were the people that raised us, and were, for all intents and purpose, “family.” Except they weren’t, and when I found out how they lived, it broke my heart. I was also raised by a British mother, who was an awesome woman, but came from a middle-class Liverpool (“scouse”) family, and spent h…

As someone who was born a lower caste hindu, I don't really mind the british caste system at all. Because the british caste system is fluid. If you are born to servant parents and study hard to become a doctor, you end up at the top of the caste system. Not in Hinduism. Even if you become a doctor, but were born a dalit(lowest caste), you will remain a dalit and so will your future generations. There is no escape fro…

Good point, and I appreciate it, but it isn't quite as "fluid" in the UK as it may seem. In the US, yes. In the UK, not so much.

We recently had a woman that works for the State Department give testimony, and one of the things she mentioned, in her prepared remarks, was that she came to the US, because she couldn't get a fair shake in the UK, due to her "Northern accent," despite some heavy-duty cred.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5gmpdtbWB0

The one thing that the Indian caste system has, is something to outlaw.

Since it is so codified, there's a specific thing to point to in a law.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#325

Post by furyroad » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 10:46 AM UTC

randomguy2379 wrote: post #54

paloaltokid wrote: post #38

I'm a very white guy living in California and I often get the impression that caste is something that Indian folks living here are aware of amongst each other, but they don't really discuss it with white people. On some level it feels to me like it's something Indian folks don't share because they feel it would be misunderstood (which makes a lot of sense). Or maybe it's a kind of "not airing out the laundry in publi…

I am someone who was born a hindu dalit and I am so ashamed of sharing that identity of mine that I am posting anonymously. Hindus believe that humans are like dogs and they have a breed. So a person who is born in a higher caste is of a better breed than a person born in a lower caste. Numerous genetic studies have found no significant difference amongst Indian castes. The moment an upper caste person realizes that…

I feel your pain. This is the very reason for which Dr.Ambedkar converted himself, along with 380,000 followers to Buddhism. Having studied Hinduism for years and realizing that caste is the inseparable from the religion, he declared “I had the misfortune of being born with the stigma of an Untouchable. However, it is not my fault; but I will not die a Hindu, for this is in my power.” Source: https://time.com/5770511/india-protests-br-ambedkar/

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#326

Post by arethuza » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 10:46 AM UTC

randomguy2379 wrote: post #308

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #273

I’ve got a “hot button” about castes. I hate ‘em. Comes from growing up overseas (I live in the US), and having servants. These were the people that raised us, and were, for all intents and purpose, “family.” Except they weren’t, and when I found out how they lived, it broke my heart. I was also raised by a British mother, who was an awesome woman, but came from a middle-class Liverpool (“scouse”) family, and spent h…

As someone who was born a lower caste hindu, I don't really mind the british caste system at all. Because the british caste system is fluid. If you are born to servant parents and study hard to become a doctor, you end up at the top of the caste system. Not in Hinduism. Even if you become a doctor, but were born a dalit(lowest caste), you will remain a dalit and so will your future generations. There is no escape fro…

Becoming a doctor does not make you upper class in the UK. You can't really become upper class, at least in the traditional sense - certainly not through a job or money.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class_in_the_United_Kin...

e.g. David Cameron, Eton educated prime-minister, described himself as middle class.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25744526

Edit: You could argue that everyone is middle class these days - almost nobody self identifies as working class and there are so few real upper class people (I've never met one).

Edit2: Of course, you used to be able to buy entry into the upper class. But that doesn't happen anymore ;-)

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#327

Post by naruvimama » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 10:49 AM UTC

randomguy2379 wrote: post #282

peroporque wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't people just change their last name? I imagine if suddenly everyone's last name was Gupta, that kind of discrimination would become difficult.

An even better approach is to just change your religion. I was born a hindu dalit but I converted and so have many of my friends and family. Religious conversions have become so common in India that states have started to bring out laws to curtail it. Casteism is a construct of Hinduism and other religions don't suffer from it in the same way as Hinduism does. So you can change your religion , your name and claim tha…

[flagged]

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#328

Post by entha_saava » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 10:51 AM UTC

randomguy2379 wrote: post #312

entha_saava wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a disclaimer, someone may miss that 'some of us' part while reading and think I am saying that as an outsider. You are the anti-brahmin hypocrite generalizing your experience with some of them to blame them. People like you are why there is still lot of SJW bullshit in India. A person with ½ of my competetive exam scores, and double the income easily gets a seat in NIT because reservation based on caste. The g…

For over 2 millenia dalits were not even allowed to enter schools or gain education. Ambedkar was famously the only dalit student in his school. If dalits and other lower castes were not allowed to enter schools for more than a thousand years , then doesn't that mean that brahmins and other upper castes had 100% reservation in education for more than a thousand years? Why complain about reservation now when it was yo…

> For over 2 millenia dalits were not even allowed to enter schools or gain education.

I agree. But reservation as it is in practice currently is rather a knee jerk reaction and not a scientific system. The problem with all these SJW "empowerment" plans is they empower the people who are already empowered.

A retired judge told that the only way to ensure reservation won't be misused is restricting it to one member in one family, and I agree with that, or even restricting reservation to those with less income. The problem with second approach is people easily fake income in income certificates.

The misuse of reservation system is why there is lot of complaints against it, even for people who would score a low amount in tests, reservation would become a scapegoat when the other person with similar economical status gets a job or seat in good college with similar scores.

And your generalization isn't true either. My dad learned till 4th standard, which is almost the average in the area regardless of the caste. My grandmother told she didn't go to school, and I have not seen my grandfather to ask how much he studied.

At this point, you may consider me biased because I don't know about harsh realities in other regions. But keep the data point.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#329

Post by distances » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 10:52 AM UTC

8ytecoder wrote: post #139

olcor wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> eating that tortilla since it contains lard I'm not a Brahmin (and am technically from a much "lower caste") and I wouldn't eat lard (I'm a vegetarian). IMO caste and vegetarianism are different concepts. While certain castes/communities/regions might promote vegetarianism and some might not, I'm not sure if they're always an identifying marker. A lot of people in India are vegetarian for a multitude of reasons and…

Vegetarian is a huge identity marker. Quote from a professor from my college to my then girlfriend about me - “I wish he was at least a vegetarian”. I happen to be a vegan now and I have a lighter complexion and I clearly get assumed to be “upper caste” and somehow “smart” goes along with it. Answering to GP above - I don’t mind talking about it but some bar conversations have opened with it. That’s not pleasant. It’…

I'm a total outsider and don't know a thing about the caste system, so forgive me being ignorant: how do others know to which caste someone belongs? Would it be possible to claim another caste and just roll with it? What if one changed their surname to something usually associated with a certain caste?

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#330

Post by C1sc0cat » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 10:55 AM UTC

walt0 wrote: post #99

I live and work in India and I would like to throw more light on this. Me and my friends like to joke around that you will never get your dues, either pay raise or promotions unless you have the last names jain, gupta, sharma, verma. I had a guy on my team who was very capable but did not have the right last name, he was being harassed for promotions for 4-5 years. On the other hand the manager class was entirely "ja…

I mentioned this before and got marked down for it. In the UK Caste was added a few years into the anti discrimination law.

I know one of the MP's involved in getting that through parliament.