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California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

reuters.com

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Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#261

Post by devdas »

hef19898 wrote: post #113
vijaybritto wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. very true. I'm a christian in India and I have caste. Not sure why your answer is downvoted. Indian Christians are converts from Hinduism and they simply cannot leave their caste behind. The society forms the caste not the Individual. Even if I say I dont want caste, I still have it because of my ancestry and I'll definitely be discriminated.

This whole caste thing sucks. It is, in some ways, even the worst form of racism if you ask me. Because it so subtle and almost invisible to outsiders. I know it is for me, some white person yelling the n-word at a person of colour is easy to spot. Same goes for north-africans in France, Turks in Germany, Pakistanis and Indians in the UK... Little slurs between castes, not so much. And it seems to be almost impossibl…

The worst forms of racism are not very obvious.

Not considering hiring people with non-Biblical or clearly "Black" names is one of those things which you can't see. Not showing Black people houses in good neighbourhoods is another. That behaviour is still racist, but invisible.

Casteism plays out along similar lines, with people not being hired, or promoted.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#262

Post by [deleted] »

twic wrote: post #221
hef19898 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This mortality question is one that really intrigues me. Minorities have higher rates in the US and the UK for example. I didn't see any numbers for Germany so far, and France isn't collecting data based on "race" (for lack of a better term). What would really be interessting is to break the mortality down by income and poverty. And than compare it to income an poverty based on race, where such numbers are available…

This is pretty much what the ONS have done [1]: > We used binary logistic regression models to estimate whether the risk of dying from COVID-19 is greater among the Black and other minority ethnic groups than among the White ethnic population, after taking into account a number of geographic, demographic, socio-economic, living arrangements and health measures from the 2011 Census. > Adjusting for these factors subst…

[deleted]

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#263

Post by rutherblood »

entha_saava wrote: post #251
rutherblood wrote: post #178

I've heard this argument alot. To people saying caste isn't that big of an issue in contemporary india, esp in the urban areas: let's ask an Indian parent if they'd be comfortable having their child marry someone they think is of a "lower caste" than theirs. THIS is the best litmus test, quick, cheap and easy way to clear all doubts on the contemporary caste question. The things is inter-caste marriage is the best wa…

To be honest, for some of them it is a matter of 'preserving culture' and I don't think they would accept a 'higher' caste one either. That said, it may be different in other parts of India.

that's actually true, but in most cases, while they might be reluctantly willing to accept a partner from a "higher caste" they'd be downright aggressively dismissive of the other. And this holds for families all along the long chain of the caste hierarchy. Hypocrisy is a way of life.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#264

Post by walt0 »

scandox wrote: post #215
walt0 wrote: post #99

I live and work in India and I would like to throw more light on this. Me and my friends like to joke around that you will never get your dues, either pay raise or promotions unless you have the last names jain, gupta, sharma, verma. I had a guy on my team who was very capable but did not have the right last name, he was being harassed for promotions for 4-5 years. On the other hand the manager class was entirely "ja…

Curious what extreme left ideology looks like in India.

They are mostly people from the east coast. If you draw a line from the state of bihar to kerela and people in the 4 big cities. punjab and kashmir to some extent too. Some support the communist party of india, which still holds power in some states but is steadily declining. Many support fringe armed terrorists and domestic terrorists and breaking up the country.

Before independence there was a strong movement to push india towards a communist revolution like china or the USSR. The indian national congress which is still the main party on the left absorbed many of these radicals. In the cold war, these parties aligned India with the USSR, despite the absurd hypocrisy that india is a member of NAM but also signed a cooperation treaty with USSR. You will find that roads in new delhi are named after thugs from the eastern bloc like Tito, thats something you will not find even in ex-yugoslav states. But zero roads or monuments named after anyone from the western bloc or indians not part of the nehru-gandhi dynasty.

It is mostly orphans of this movement which disbanded after 1991. They're against everything america does but send their kids to the USA for studying in america's best universities.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#265

Post by naruvimama »

Caste is a complex subject, the word itself is imported from Portuguese and the system itself is a copy of the European system - Royalty, Clergy, Merchant, Landlords, Artisans, peasants/labourers.

There is nothing "Indian" about the caste system, certainly nothing to do with "Hinduism" where even rocks, tree, animals are considered divine.

The modern caste theory was synthesised by British scholar by putting together two separate ideas that existed in the Indian culture.

"Varna" - found in one of many law books called manu-smrithi used by some kingdoms at some point in time. It postulates society and a nation's strength lies in the four pillars of society based on the type of powers and responsibility a person has based on where he/she fell, nowhere does it make the claim that it is by birth. I have never known anyone who has actually read the Manu-smrithi nor have I even seen one, so much for the theoretical indulgence.

And it is very practical and fair in that harsh laws apply to people of power like royalty, clergy, teachers or landowner for crimes committed.

The "jatti" on the other hand evolves naturally based on the work passed on from father-son and communities based on profession, marriage. In fact, different jetties do have their own temples, with their own priests and gods related to their profession. This is in strong contrast to the Church that monopolised god.

Jatti is strong among people who still live in traditional rural settings still following professions passed on from father to son. So ironically jatti is extremely relevant among the poor and weaker sections.

So who benefits from promoting casteism today?

- Politicians who can divide and rule

- Christian evangelists who have done similar things around the world like in Rwanda

- The elitist among the different castes who either benefit from reservations, exclusivity, politics or as bargaining chips

- Even for people who do not care about caste, will find it exceedingly difficult to find a partner for marriage outside their community network

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#266

Post by castevictim »

eklavya wrote: post #226
castevictim wrote: post #78

Readers who are not from Indian subcontinent may find this difficult to understand or beleive, let me throw some context. Indian caste system is probably the longest running abuse,racism, human rights violation in the human history. Even,now in some parts of the country people from lowest caste are made to carry human waste on their head[0]. After independence,thanks to rights offered by constitution & reservation by…

> Brahmin patriarchy is the deep state in India, do a quick search about top CEOs in India, Majority of Company auditors are Brahmins so the company/tax laws are often dictated by them So which company/tax laws are anti Dalit? The only law about casteism is ridiculously anti Non-Dalit. They can jail anyone with just a complaint, no proofs are required. You have to fight in the court to get out of jail, not go in the…

>You have to fight in the court to get out of jail, not go in the jail.

Do you mean that jail where two-third of prisoners are Dalits, tribals and from Other Backward Classes (OBCs), 19% are Muslims?[0]

Or are you talking about the prison/judicial system which is statistically proven to be Brahminical[1].

[0]https://www.deccanherald.com/national/north-and-central/majo...

[1]https://www.huffingtonpost.in/suraj-yengde/theres-a-caste-bi...

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#267

Post by walt0 »

sameerds wrote: post #225
scandox wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious what extreme left ideology looks like in India.

In India, "the Left" represents socialism, while "the Right" represents liberal economics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_left People with leftist political leanings are generally unhappy with all governments, and have very strong opinions about how the country should be run. They end up forming their own tight clubs. EDIT: corrected "libertarian economics" to "liberal economics"

I disagree with this actually. The right in India in terms of economic policy is as far left as in the democratic party in USA. The left is further left.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#269

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

czzr wrote: post #236
ReticentVole wrote: post #235

If Indians are so willing to discriminate against eachother on the basis of their own caste, we should be entirely unsurprised when Indians managers and companies discriminate against non-Indians (ie. Americans and other Europeans) in their own countries - of which there are multiple recorded instances. We need to be incredibly careful with the volume of migrants that we are taking in to the West. Issues like FGM, se…

Indeed, let’s extend this. Plenty of documented cases of discriminatory behaviour from white Americans from Southern states - we should be incredibly careful about hiring them or letting them into any positions of power.

this attitude doesn't solve the racism problem. it just creates more of it. you don't solve anything with an eye-for-an-eye.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#270

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #238
ReticentVole wrote: post #235

If Indians are so willing to discriminate against eachother on the basis of their own caste, we should be entirely unsurprised when Indians managers and companies discriminate against non-Indians (ie. Americans and other Europeans) in their own countries - of which there are multiple recorded instances. We need to be incredibly careful with the volume of migrants that we are taking in to the West. Issues like FGM, se…

We need to be incredibly careful with the volume of migrants that we are taking in to the West. Issues like FGM, sex-selective abortions, hiring discrimination are becoming established because migrants have come over in such numbers that they have little pressure to assimilate and adopt Western values. Honestly, I don't believe you. This just sounds like the same thing racists and xenophobes have been saying for year…

> This just sounds like the same thing racists and xenophobes have been saying for years

the reason why it sounds like a racist argument is because it is.

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