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California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

reuters.com

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Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#231

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

himinlomax wrote: post #194
peroporque wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't people just change their last name? I imagine if suddenly everyone's last name was Gupta, that kind of discrimination would become difficult.

For some reason this reminds me of this Senegalese immigrant to France who, upon receiving citizenship, petitioned to have his legal name changed to better reflect his new identity. He chose "Charles de Gaulle." This was 30 years ago, I don't remember if he was successful.

He will willing to, almost literally, give up his identity to assimilate. Plus he apparently had a pretty good understanding of the culture.

I hope he got the name, a good job, and maybe some sort of award for "French Person of the Year".

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#232

Post by drumhead »

Veen wrote: post #161
hef19898 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically speaking, most ancient societies had something similar, one way or the other. What is really interesting, is that India is the only country I know of, that codified that system religiously and carried it into the 21st century. Not to say that there is an society without discrimination and social disparity. But only a few take it to the level the Indian caste system does. That shows how tricky racism is,…

> African-Americans, in the UK Pakistanis and Indians It’s worth differentiating here. The experiences and outcomes and attitudes towards Pakistanis are very different to those of Indians in the UK. Indians are by far the most successful ethnic minority in the UK while Pakistanis are the least. Three of the most senior positions in the UK government are occupied by people of Indian descent—Priti Patel, Rishi Sunak, a…

However the first non-white chancellor in the Uk, before Rishi Sunak was Sajid Javid, a Pakistani, as is the mayor of London, Sadiq Khan. But wouldn’t it be fair to say the most successful Indians in the Uk come from higher castes? How successful are the Gugurati Kuchi background Indians compared to the Ugandan immigrants and higher caste Hindus.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#233

Post by throwaway781341 »

castevictim wrote: post #78

Readers who are not from Indian subcontinent may find this difficult to understand or beleive, let me throw some context. Indian caste system is probably the longest running abuse,racism, human rights violation in the human history. Even,now in some parts of the country people from lowest caste are made to carry human waste on their head[0]. After independence,thanks to rights offered by constitution & reservation by…

You are painting only one sided picture and that's obvious from username you have chosen.

India has 1bn+ people, you can't generalize this. There are bunch of Brahmin people at higher level who actively work to uplift others and they do this without being atheist. There are 12 types of beliefs defined in Indian spirituality, it's not binary as in atheist vs believer.

Also, food for thought - are all Brahmins in India are still privileged to earn status of CEOs and managers? The amount of caste based reservation in education to jobs - it's hard for Brahmins to get a seat in college or take a job nowadays, still if these people are on top - do you think it's only some privilege? You are wrong here.

Please provide both the sides on platforms like HN or some brahmins in india will have to have their own version of BLM - "Brahmin Lives Matter"

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#234

Post by naveens »

distant_hat wrote: post #185
olcor wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, ~not all places~ varies from place to place. Haven't myself had an issue yet, coming from a not-so-desirable caste, and I know plenty who haven't either. > definitely a major part of marriage discussions Again, not all of them; speaking from personal experiences. Most of those sites have a "don't know/don't care" field, and many have that option set :) I agree that the field itself shouldn't be there, but…

Maybe your experiences are different but from my friends and personal experiences it happens all the time. Two brahmin friend of mine who were looking to rent in a posh locality in Bangalore had to provide their contacts in the village to make it clear to the landlords that they were genuine brahmins from the right caste. Incidentally, both were PhDs from US institutes so that did not prevent the checks. Remember, Ba…

Which part of Bangalore did this happen? Landlords usually use veg-only as a dogwhistle to select brahmins. Also they are wary to let out to other religions, muslims especially.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#235

Post by ReticentVole »

If Indians are so willing to discriminate against eachother on the basis of their own caste, we should be entirely unsurprised when Indians managers and companies discriminate against non-Indians (ie. Americans and other Europeans) in their own countries - of which there are multiple recorded instances.

We need to be incredibly careful with the volume of migrants that we are taking in to the West. Issues like FGM, sex-selective abortions, hiring discrimination are becoming established because migrants have come over in such numbers that they have little pressure to assimilate and adopt Western values.

I think we need to dramatically scale back immigration numbers across the West, and set in place a quota and auction system to limit intakes to 10% from any one country, with a maximum of 49% males from any one country.

We could then allow much freer immigration to and from other highly developed countries*, given that the migration flows would be two-way, and there is much greater cultural compatibility.

The HDI top 30, for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Dev...

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#236

Post by czzr »

ReticentVole wrote: post #235

If Indians are so willing to discriminate against eachother on the basis of their own caste, we should be entirely unsurprised when Indians managers and companies discriminate against non-Indians (ie. Americans and other Europeans) in their own countries - of which there are multiple recorded instances. We need to be incredibly careful with the volume of migrants that we are taking in to the West. Issues like FGM, se…

Indeed, let’s extend this. Plenty of documented cases of discriminatory behaviour from white Americans from Southern states - we should be incredibly careful about hiring them or letting them into any positions of power.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#237

Post by bravura »

ponker wrote: post #167
peroporque wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't people just change their last name? I imagine if suddenly everyone's last name was Gupta, that kind of discrimination would become difficult.

You can change your last name to Rockefeller, and some get away with it [1], but usually you'd be exposed because not only would you not have the right clothes, manners, alma maters, accent, etc... but most of all, you wouldn't know the right people. "Oh you're a Rockefeller, eh? So I'll see you at the Wickliffe's garden party in Martha's Vineyard this June?" [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Gerhartsreiter

Although I agree with your general sentiment, it seems that Christian Gerhartsreiter got quite far (e.g. member of the Algonquin club), and wasn't discovered because of poor manners or a declasse accent or the wrong clothes, but for parental child abduction.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#238

Post by Broken_Hippo »

ReticentVole wrote: post #235

If Indians are so willing to discriminate against eachother on the basis of their own caste, we should be entirely unsurprised when Indians managers and companies discriminate against non-Indians (ie. Americans and other Europeans) in their own countries - of which there are multiple recorded instances. We need to be incredibly careful with the volume of migrants that we are taking in to the West. Issues like FGM, se…

We need to be incredibly careful with the volume of migrants that we are taking in to the West. Issues like FGM, sex-selective abortions, hiring discrimination are becoming established because migrants have come over in such numbers that they have little pressure to assimilate and adopt Western values.

Honestly, I don't believe you. This just sounds like the same thing racists and xenophobes have been saying for years. Do you have numbers from a source that isn't clearly a right-wing publication? If not, why say these things?

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#239

Post by [deleted] »

czzr wrote: post #236
ReticentVole wrote: post #235

If Indians are so willing to discriminate against eachother on the basis of their own caste, we should be entirely unsurprised when Indians managers and companies discriminate against non-Indians (ie. Americans and other Europeans) in their own countries - of which there are multiple recorded instances. We need to be incredibly careful with the volume of migrants that we are taking in to the West. Issues like FGM, se…

Indeed, let’s extend this. Plenty of documented cases of discriminatory behaviour from white Americans from Southern states - we should be incredibly careful about hiring them or letting them into any positions of power.

[deleted]

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#240

Post by Veen »

drumhead wrote: post #232
Veen wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> African-Americans, in the UK Pakistanis and Indians It’s worth differentiating here. The experiences and outcomes and attitudes towards Pakistanis are very different to those of Indians in the UK. Indians are by far the most successful ethnic minority in the UK while Pakistanis are the least. Three of the most senior positions in the UK government are occupied by people of Indian descent—Priti Patel, Rishi Sunak, a…

However the first non-white chancellor in the Uk, before Rishi Sunak was Sajid Javid, a Pakistani, as is the mayor of London, Sadiq Khan. But wouldn’t it be fair to say the most successful Indians in the Uk come from higher castes? How successful are the Gugurati Kuchi background Indians compared to the Ugandan immigrants and higher caste Hindus.

Yes, and there are many prominent people of Pakistani origin in the UK [0]. I think it makes sense that people who immigrate with expertise, capital, and an entrepreneurial mindset are more likely to find financial success in the first couple of generations than those who don't, which correlates with caste and family history etc.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_Pakistanis

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