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California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

reuters.com

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Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#191

Post by neilpanchal »

saagarjha wrote: post #174
paloaltokid wrote: post #38

I'm a very white guy living in California and I often get the impression that caste is something that Indian folks living here are aware of amongst each other, but they don't really discuss it with white people. On some level it feels to me like it's something Indian folks don't share because they feel it would be misunderstood (which makes a lot of sense). Or maybe it's a kind of "not airing out the laundry in publi…

I’m ethnically Indian but was born in and have lived in the US my entire life. I also happen to be a Brahmin, which I assume some of the people here could probably figure out from my name but I only learned about because of some random ritual thing when I was a child where I had to shave my hair and wear some sort of symbolic thread or something like that. Aside from family, who I am sure are the same caste, I think…

I’ll second this - I was born in India and moved to US at young age. Never had caste come up ever with my family or relatives, but the only time I had to think about it was when someone asked me about it (out of curiosity, not in any other way).

Lately, I picked up one of the introductory courses from Audible - “Great World Religions: Hinduism from The Great Courses”. It was well put together - a whole chapter dedicated to caste system in India. Particularly talks about restriction of mobility and exceptions when it can happen. Highly recommend it for anyone who wants to learn more about the good, the bad and the ugly of Hinduism.

Apparently, I was born in the artisanal caste of India, specifically Blacksmiths: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchal

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#192

Post by clothesline »

thickice wrote: post #86

I am an Indian and have been in US for many years. There is one thing I have noticed among brahmins, during their Naturalization process many of them change their last names to Iyer or Iyengar (two sects of Brahmins). I am referring to guys from the southern part of India where I am from. Its not a common practice there. My interpretation of this is these folks have a perceived sense of superiority feeling about thei…

The social movement started several years ago. Its called the quota system and it has been enforced at various levels of government jobs and education. People just get promoted with no regard to their actual performance in all kinds of government jobs. This type of reservation on the basis of caste is regressive. What about someone who is supposedly from a "higher" caste but is still not economically well-off. Such people have to work much harder than their counterparts who receive concessions on their performance. Once you are in the university this doesn't stop. For most government universities the fees are different for people from reserved, non-reserved categories - meaning that someone from a poor background but with "higher" caste label has to work harder for opportunities for education and also has to bear a financial burden once you cross these hurdles. Think from the perspective of a middle class "higher" caste member of society - why should someone like that bear the high tax burden of the country when their kids won't receive much of the benefits. Any talk of scaling back this historical policy screw-up (Mandal comission report / VP Singh government) is vehemently put down. Just look up how the previous government reacted when doctors protested against the extension of caste-based reservation to postgraduate medical education. This is not even partisan. Even in current government one politician said something similar in very derogatory terms leading to him losing in the elections. Reservation should be granted on the basis of economic condition only because the point is economic upliftment. There should be policy that grants economic parity but I don't think the country has resources for satiating revenge.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#193

Post by saagarjha »

idontcare634 wrote: post #175

As a former employee of Cisco and having been in the Silicon Valley for 10+ years, I can say that I have witnessed extreme casteism and nepotism in Cisco. There was a saying I heard a few years back that one of the criteria to get hired in one of the Cisco guaranteed acquisition spinoffs is that you wear a thread (called Janeu - worn by high caste Hindus over their shoulder and hidden inside shirt). If there is one c…

As far as I understand, you’re supposed to wear that thread in a way that would keep it hidden when wearing normal work attire. If that’s so, how would others know you had one? Would you secretly flash them at each other like a gang symbol?

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#194

Post by himinlomax »

peroporque wrote: post #147
walt0 wrote: post #99

I live and work in India and I would like to throw more light on this. Me and my friends like to joke around that you will never get your dues, either pay raise or promotions unless you have the last names jain, gupta, sharma, verma. I had a guy on my team who was very capable but did not have the right last name, he was being harassed for promotions for 4-5 years. On the other hand the manager class was entirely "ja…

Couldn't people just change their last name? I imagine if suddenly everyone's last name was Gupta, that kind of discrimination would become difficult.

For some reason this reminds me of this Senegalese immigrant to France who, upon receiving citizenship, petitioned to have his legal name changed to better reflect his new identity.

He chose "Charles de Gaulle." This was 30 years ago, I don't remember if he was successful.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#195

Post by saagarjha »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #151
dang wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take HN threads further into religious flamewar. If you have corrective information, that's great, but provide it neutrally. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Lots of unchecked rampant generalizing and evidence-free racism from new accounts in this thread towards Hindus and Indians. So now anecdotes spilling vitriol are allowed?

No, they’re never allowed. If you see any feel free to flag it appropriately, although please do try to presume good faith where possible.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#196

Post by OJFord »

hef19898 wrote: post #119
throwaway781341 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just wanted to mention few things because they need be said. I hope it helps. Caste system and Varna system in India are 2 different things. Many people including Indians fail to understand this. Caste system and what was written in Manusmruti (some guidelines book for Hindus) was debated even in ancient times but some high-caste-people did take advantage of it and it went screwed up in-between years. Caste system…

Historically speaking, most ancient societies had something similar, one way or the other. What is really interesting, is that India is the only country I know of, that codified that system religiously and carried it into the 21st century. Not to say that there is an society without discrimination and social disparity. But only a few take it to the level the Indian caste system does. That shows how tricky racism is,…

> in the UK Pakistanis and Indians

Eh?

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#197

Post by clothesline »

walt0 wrote: post #99

I live and work in India and I would like to throw more light on this. Me and my friends like to joke around that you will never get your dues, either pay raise or promotions unless you have the last names jain, gupta, sharma, verma. I had a guy on my team who was very capable but did not have the right last name, he was being harassed for promotions for 4-5 years. On the other hand the manager class was entirely "ja…

I hope this nonsense can stop and talent can be rewarded regardless of caste.

> This was all very hush-hush, I know of it because I overheard them talking about it.

Of course it is. In India, there are some ridiculuous rules related to caste discrimination. For example someone from "lower" caste can sue a person for libel and have him thrown in jail with no FIR. Caste based discrimination is wrong. But arrest-before-FIR is worse and can destroy someone's life.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#198

Post by saagarjha »

lki876 wrote: post #188
_8j50 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caste is another term for race. Both terms are not terms that designate bioligical properties of a person but social grouping based on perceived social differences (e.g.: even if your skin is lighter than some white people, having 1/8th black ancestory will get you classified as black, while actual african americans with wealthy had become "honorary white"). Like others have said, you can't say "I won't hire you beca…

> Caste is another term for race. Both terms are not terms that designate bioligical properties... Caste is based on profession.

*Was based on profession.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#199

Post by 9nGQluzmnq3M »

OJFord wrote: post #179
9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not 1:1, but there's a clear correlation. To caricature a bit, the Brahmins at the top of the hierarchy can afford to have an elaborate "pure" vegetarian diet with lots of ghee etc (the Jains, mentioned earlier, even exclude root vegetables that would kill the plant), somewhere around the middle of the pile you start eating animals because you need to get your protein where you can, and at the very bottom are th…

> the Jains, mentioned earlier, even exclude root vegetables that would kill the plant Really? So no haldi?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_vegetarianism

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#200

Post by hef19898 »

OJFord wrote: post #196
hef19898 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically speaking, most ancient societies had something similar, one way or the other. What is really interesting, is that India is the only country I know of, that codified that system religiously and carried it into the 21st century. Not to say that there is an society without discrimination and social disparity. But only a few take it to the level the Indian caste system does. That shows how tricky racism is,…

> in the UK Pakistanis and Indians Eh?

See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_United_Kingdom#2...

Especially the part about "Paki-Bashing" in 80s.

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