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California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

reuters.com

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Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#111

Post by ashtonkem »

blueblisters wrote: post #84
randomguy2379 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am someone who was born a hindu dalit and I am so ashamed of sharing that identity of mine that I am posting anonymously. Hindus believe that humans are like dogs and they have a breed. So a person who is born in a higher caste is of a better breed than a person born in a lower caste. Numerous genetic studies have found no significant difference amongst Indian castes. The moment an upper caste person realizes that…

I am sorry for your experience. Do you mind sharing what part of India you're from? It is really surprising to me that relatively better off Dalits would still find the need to convert to a different religion to avoid discrimination. Even more surprising that this is happening at a wider scale. I respect your personal choice, of course, but curious why people choose to convert to a different religion instead of just…

Not Indian, but I suspect that Christianity has a lot of bits and pieces that would be extremely attractive to Dalits. Early Christianity was the religion of slaves, soldiers, and other low status individuals in Roman society. Thus the scriptures are packed full of positive references towards the poor, the meek, and the downtrodden. But even more important, christian teachings emphasis a lot about moral equality in life and death; all people are inherently sinners, and all believers get the same treatment in death regardless of status or wealth. This is, I assume, an extremely attractive proposition if you feel burned by a religion that says that your low status is the fault of a past you, and that in death your best hope is a slightly higher status the next time around.

I do find it fascinating how a converted Dalit is basically freed from the social burdens of their class. I would not have expected that, as most religious groups heap scorn or actual punishments on those who convert to another religion.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#112

Post by tomcam »

randomguy2379 wrote: post #54
paloaltokid wrote: post #38

I'm a very white guy living in California and I often get the impression that caste is something that Indian folks living here are aware of amongst each other, but they don't really discuss it with white people. On some level it feels to me like it's something Indian folks don't share because they feel it would be misunderstood (which makes a lot of sense). Or maybe it's a kind of "not airing out the laundry in publi…

I am someone who was born a hindu dalit and I am so ashamed of sharing that identity of mine that I am posting anonymously. Hindus believe that humans are like dogs and they have a breed. So a person who is born in a higher caste is of a better breed than a person born in a lower caste. Numerous genetic studies have found no significant difference amongst Indian castes. The moment an upper caste person realizes that…

Easy for me to say, but if I were you, assuming you’re in the USA, I’d own the hell out of it. To be ashamed of it here is to give power needlessly to whole populations who do not own you. And the States love an underdog.

This is the country where “Yankee Doodle” started out as an anti-American insult by the Brits and ended up being one of the nation’s favorite songs. The nation that used the N-word seriously until around 1965, then by 1975 it had been completely co-opted by people like Richard Prior, and later hip-hop artists. Just so you know, I am married to someone whose parents forbade her to go out with me because of my race. Before I married her another girlfriend stopped dating me because I wasn’t black. Before that, another girlfriend’s parents tried to stop her relationship with me because I wasn’t Jewish. Now that I have a passel of mixed-race kids... guess who makes endless racial jokes? All of us. It drives our friends crazy.

I’d have a DALIT license plate. I’d have a line of DALIT T-shirts. I’d shove it right in people’s faces for the sheer enjoyment of it. I would totally kill it with the DALIT merch.

My heart goes out to you, and my best to you and yours. What a nightmare.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#113

Post by hef19898 »

vijaybritto wrote: post #92
rgrs wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christians in India have castes https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-11229170

Yes. very true. I'm a christian in India and I have caste. Not sure why your answer is downvoted. Indian Christians are converts from Hinduism and they simply cannot leave their caste behind. The society forms the caste not the Individual. Even if I say I dont want caste, I still have it because of my ancestry and I'll definitely be discriminated.

This whole caste thing sucks. It is, in some ways, even the worst form of racism if you ask me. Because it so subtle and almost invisible to outsiders. I know it is for me, some white person yelling the n-word at a person of colour is easy to spot. Same goes for north-africans in France, Turks in Germany, Pakistanis and Indians in the UK... Little slurs between castes, not so much. And it seems to be almost impossible to hide the caste, it seems.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#114

Post by paloaltokid »

throwaway781341 wrote: post #97
paloaltokid wrote: post #38

I'm a very white guy living in California and I often get the impression that caste is something that Indian folks living here are aware of amongst each other, but they don't really discuss it with white people. On some level it feels to me like it's something Indian folks don't share because they feel it would be misunderstood (which makes a lot of sense). Or maybe it's a kind of "not airing out the laundry in publi…

I just wanted to mention few things because they need be said. I hope it helps. Caste system and Varna system in India are 2 different things. Many people including Indians fail to understand this. Caste system and what was written in Manusmruti (some guidelines book for Hindus) was debated even in ancient times but some high-caste-people did take advantage of it and it went screwed up in-between years. Caste system…

Thanks for your reply. Can you explain this one a little bit?

> One more example in the context of "untouchable" and Brahmins to help you understand the point of not touching others - If lady in a Brahmin house is preparing food in the morning (she will always take bath first), NOBODY (her parents, kids, husband, whatever) in the house is allowed to go to the kitchen, touch her or even drink water from there until they take bath. Please try to think about this.

Are you referring to someone who is a dalit servant in a wealthy house? That's how I'm reading it at the moment but realize you could mean it a few different ways.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#115

Post by [deleted] »

sameerds wrote: post #91
paloaltokid wrote: post #38

I'm a very white guy living in California and I often get the impression that caste is something that Indian folks living here are aware of amongst each other, but they don't really discuss it with white people. On some level it feels to me like it's something Indian folks don't share because they feel it would be misunderstood (which makes a lot of sense). Or maybe it's a kind of "not airing out the laundry in publi…

There's not much to misunderstand, actually. The caste system is a highly discriminatory and unfair classification of people based on their birth. For a major part of Indian history, it was the upper castes that abused it. But since independence, politicians from both higher and lower castes have managed to keep it running for their own gains. Consider these lyrics: "They cut me out for a baking bread, but I had othe…

[deleted]

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#116

Post by ashtonkem »

sk0g wrote: post #46
paloaltokid wrote: post #38

I'm a very white guy living in California and I often get the impression that caste is something that Indian folks living here are aware of amongst each other, but they don't really discuss it with white people. On some level it feels to me like it's something Indian folks don't share because they feel it would be misunderstood (which makes a lot of sense). Or maybe it's a kind of "not airing out the laundry in publi…

I lived in India for a bit, and no shit they wouldn't share it. It's a horrible form of discrimination, worse than racism in some ways, IMO. You could, historically, spread your "untouchableness" by contacting people of other castes, for example. Marrying your child to someone from a lower caste is seen as a shameful move to many people. White people would absolutely not understand this, yes, but what is there to und…

In many ways, it’s similar to the hierarchy if feudal titles in medieval Europe, with the serfs being legally tied to the land. It’s just shocking to see such a feudal anachronism continuing so long after the initial conditions that created it have ceased to exist.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#117

Post by paloaltokid »

ashtonkem wrote: post #111
blueblisters wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry for your experience. Do you mind sharing what part of India you're from? It is really surprising to me that relatively better off Dalits would still find the need to convert to a different religion to avoid discrimination. Even more surprising that this is happening at a wider scale. I respect your personal choice, of course, but curious why people choose to convert to a different religion instead of just…

Not Indian, but I suspect that Christianity has a lot of bits and pieces that would be extremely attractive to Dalits. Early Christianity was the religion of slaves, soldiers, and other low status individuals in Roman society. Thus the scriptures are packed full of positive references towards the poor, the meek, and the downtrodden. But even more important, christian teachings emphasis a lot about moral equality in l…

> I do find it fascinating how a converted Dalit is basically freed from the social burdens of their class. I would not have expected that, as most religious groups heap scorn or actual punishments on those who convert to another religion.

Based on what I've read so far in people's responses to my question it makes a kind of sense. If you convert to a different religion, historically speaking, you are now "out of competition" in terms of marriages, allocation of dowry, so on. So since many people historically never married across religion, there's no problem being nice to people who aren't competing for your same economic resources.

Please note that I don't mean to indicate approval for any of these things, just that historically that's how it has played out.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#119

Post by hef19898 »

throwaway781341 wrote: post #97
paloaltokid wrote: post #38

I'm a very white guy living in California and I often get the impression that caste is something that Indian folks living here are aware of amongst each other, but they don't really discuss it with white people. On some level it feels to me like it's something Indian folks don't share because they feel it would be misunderstood (which makes a lot of sense). Or maybe it's a kind of "not airing out the laundry in publi…

I just wanted to mention few things because they need be said. I hope it helps. Caste system and Varna system in India are 2 different things. Many people including Indians fail to understand this. Caste system and what was written in Manusmruti (some guidelines book for Hindus) was debated even in ancient times but some high-caste-people did take advantage of it and it went screwed up in-between years. Caste system…

Historically speaking, most ancient societies had something similar, one way or the other. What is really interesting, is that India is the only country I know of, that codified that system religiously and carried it into the 21st century.

Not to say that there is an society without discrimination and social disparity. But only a few take it to the level the Indian caste system does.

That shows how tricky racism is, doesn't it? In the US it is African-Americans, in the UK Pakistanis and Indians, in Germany Turks and in France people from the Maghreb states. In India it is Muslims and castes, in China the Uigurs, in the Muslim world Suunits and Shiits (hope I spelled that right). In Turkey Turks and Kurds. And it all sucks. And it goes on and on, where ever you go.

Just saying, only because one Dalit wrote the constitution doesn't make the inherent discrimination and racism go away.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#120

Post by sbmthakur »

randomguy2379 wrote: post #61

I am someone who was born a hindu dalit and I am so ashamed of sharing that identity of mine that I am posting anonymously. For someone wondering what the Hindu caste system is, here is a primer. Hindus believe that humans are like dogs and they have a breed. So a person who is born in a higher caste is of a better breed than a person born in a lower caste. Numerous genetic studies have found no significant differenc…

Could you tell me where (city) and when did this happen? Not denying caste-based discrimination but the society around me is also fairly 'hindu' and I have never seen them promoting casteism.
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