India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps • Hacker News Board

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#821

Post by jlmorton » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 12:42 AM UTC

BobbyJo wrote: post #819

jlmorton wrote: post #743

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech is not just to protect the speaker, it's to protect the rights of the citizens to hear it. Foreign propaganda is explicitly legal and protected in the United States. I'm sorry that you think it should not be, but it is, and it always has been throughout the entire history of the country. How exactly do you intend to distinguish the types of speech that the government is allowed to ban? Any foreign o…

The parent comment referenced misinformation campaigns. False statements are one of several categories of speech that are not protected.

Even that is not true. There is no criminal law against defamation, or libel. There are civil liabilities, but they almost always require the defendant to show commercial damages.

The standard in the United States is that the information published is both knowingly false and published with actual malice. And for matters of public concern, there is a further requirement that the information be provably false. Separately, the charges cannot be ridiculous, as demonstrated in Hustler v. Falwell, where it was held that even though Hustler published a story that Jerry Falwell had incestuous sex with his mother in an outhouse, and even though that story was false, known by the publisher to be false, and published with actual malice, it still did not meet the standard.

Misinformation campaigns are absolutely allowed in the United States. This is a current problem with Fake News. Fake news is protected by the First Amendment, no matter who writes it. And indeed, much of it is written by foreign agents, specifically with the intent of influencing US elections.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#822

Post by dang » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 1:07 AM UTC

edoo wrote: post #529

bjourne wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are spreading baseless, racist speculation.

China is a shithole fascist country of oppression and slavery, not a race. That you associate a nation state directly with a race, is frankly racist. Maybe you should be canceled, Björn.

We've banned this account for doing nationalistic and ideological flamewar and ignoring our requests to stop.

Personal attacks aren't allowed either.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#823

Post by econcon » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 1:32 AM UTC

swatkat wrote: post #213

kalesh wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as ABSOLUTELY right. We don't even know what's actually going on at higher levels in the government. Why isn't Alibaba & AliExpress banned?

Are kids committing suicide while using Alibaba website? https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/bengaluru... https://www.indiatoday.in/lifestyle/people/story/tiktok-star...

Social media is polarising, if someone thinks their life is shitty - social media magnifies it several hundred times untill you've become very sure only your life suck and all people are having it easy other than you.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#824

Post by BobbyJo » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 1:51 AM UTC

guerrilla wrote: post #688

BobbyJo wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please tell me how that argument could be applied to the UK's press, or Canada's, or any country in the EU's, or Australia's...

What part are you missing? The hostile part? The EU and US are still in a trade war, a conflict over Nord Stream 2 as well as over Iranian sanctions in case you forgot. [1] [1] https://www.dw.com/en/trump-ouster-will-not-heal-us-ties-say...

Those examples are stretching the meaning of hostile.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#825

Post by BobbyJo » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 2:00 AM UTC

jlmorton wrote: post #821

BobbyJo wrote: post #819

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent comment referenced misinformation campaigns. False statements are one of several categories of speech that are not protected.

Even that is not true. There is no criminal law against defamation, or libel. There are civil liabilities, but they almost always require the defendant to show commercial damages. The standard in the United States is that the information published is both knowingly false and published with actual malice. And for matters of public concern, there is a further requirement that the information be provably false. Separate…

First, China's government publishing false information wouldn't be looked at as malicious?

Second, the first amendment only applies to US citizens and those on US soil. So, as pointed out, American's have the right to seek out such information, but those oversees have no such right to have it disseminated here. Someone in the US can take the information and broadcast it on their behalf, which is how it happens now, but the notion that foreign agents have a right to create and disseminate whatever information they like is patently false.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#826

Post by jlmorton » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 2:34 AM UTC

BobbyJo wrote: post #825

jlmorton wrote: post #821

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even that is not true. There is no criminal law against defamation, or libel. There are civil liabilities, but they almost always require the defendant to show commercial damages. The standard in the United States is that the information published is both knowingly false and published with actual malice. And for matters of public concern, there is a further requirement that the information be provably false. Separate…

First, China's government publishing false information wouldn't be looked at as malicious? Second, the first amendment only applies to US citizens and those on US soil. So, as pointed out, American's have the right to seek out such information, but those oversees have no such right to have it disseminated here. Someone in the US can take the information and broadcast it on their behalf, which is how it happens now, b…

Right, anyone on American soil, including foreign-owned corporations, are protected by the First Amendment.

How else are they going to disseminate media in the United States? They certainly could disseminate it via the Internet, but then the US would have no ability to block the information except via a Great Firewall, which the US does not have.

It's a distinction without a difference. RT is a Russian Government-owned propaganda network, with an American subsidiary, which operates in the US and broadcasts soft propaganda all day long.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#827

Post by vijaybritto » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:21 AM UTC

stevens32 wrote: post #762

vijaybritto wrote: post #17

China moved into Indian territory and has killed 20 Indian soldiers and this is how India is retaliating. The prime minister is not even mentioning China in his speeches or tweets. This has been a disaster for our country.

Don't worry, apparently India has "snapped the necks of at least 18 PLA" https://swarajyamag.com/news-brief/indian-soldiers-merciless...

swarajya mag is not a news source. They're blatantly biased.

Also this news is not confirmed. Just speculation which is enough to make the public feel good.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#828

Post by entha_saava » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:09 AM UTC

mateus1 wrote: post #520

mthoms wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok is controlled by an authoritarian dictatorship engaged in a war against Western/Democratic values and human rights.

Many around of the world see the US also an authoritarian state with little regard for human rights.

How is US remotely comparable to China?

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#829

Post by entha_saava » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:15 AM UTC

shihab wrote: post #680

krn wrote: post #360

A reddit user, who claims to have reverse-engineered the TikTok app[1], concluded: > TikTok is a data collection service that is thinly-veiled as a social network. If there is an API to get information on you, your contacts, or your device... well, they're using it. > For what it's worth I've reversed the Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter apps. They don't collect anywhere near the same amount of data that TikT…

About that reddit comment, when pressed for evidence, turns out that guy's own research is conveniently "lost" because of a motherboard failure. And someone in the comment pointed out that most of the things he found suspicious about tiktok is actually regularly employed by apps like fb, twitter etc. I'm not taking sides and I don't have the technical expertise to judge everything said there. It's just that I'd be mu…

> "but but communist evil"

Noone told that. CCP is not even communism.

Chinese apps collect a fucking lot of data and Indian People innocently use those shit apps like ShareIt because inertia and maybe network effects. If you want to share a movie / song something with an ordinary indian citizen you'd have needed ShareIt which is a piece of shit. Technical ones among us use Google Files or something like that but I have so far refused to use ShareIt because it is such shady adware. Note that most Indians don't have Laptop / PC and USB / Pendrives aren't ubiquitous.

Now that there is some friction between China and India and given the nature of Chinese Governance these apps are threat to national security.

Ideally they could have banned PUBG also, the shit is ruining many lives.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#830

Post by entha_saava » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:25 AM UTC

I am an Indian and here is my perspective.

A significant portion of Indian smartphone users are not technically literate. Lot of shady adware developed in China is ubiquitous in India, due to inertia and network effects, as well as lack of awareness about security / permissions given to apps etc..

For example, that file sharing application called ShareIt. That's a piece of shit. But people used it and if you wanted to share some movie / song / something like that with other people, you would've needed that crap. I have refused to use such adware since an year and it worked for me because content I consume was different, there was cheap Jio internet and I didn't need to share much files with others. The technically educated of us used Google Files or Xender which were better than ShareIt. And most people don't own PC/Laptop thus Pendrives are out of question.

Similarly people used browsers like UC browser without concerns, because they didn't know better.

Now there is friction between China and India, the ubiquity of Chinese apps is a threat, and Govt. has taken right step. But more stuff needs to be banned, and the danger needs to be clearly communicated instead of a blanket ban, which leads people to think it is just an act of patriotism.