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How Did Vim Become So Popular?

pragmaticpineapple.com

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Re: How Did Vim Become So Popular?

#131
post #99

Does anyone have a good video comparing vim speed coding vs vscode using built in editor features? I’ve been using vscode for years and the YouTube videos that demo vim features are shallow (like how to enter a blank line - really?). I can do the same thing I have seen in vim videos without memorizing a bunch of strange key bindings all while being able to edit code instantly without changing modes. I would love to s…

copy 10 lines from the current position into buffer q, go to the start of function jnk, copy 5 lines into buffer w, jump to line 10, paste contents of q, contents of w, and contents of q sequentially one after the other: "q10yy /jnk "w5yy 10G "qp "wp "qp now, go to the start of the document and indent the next 20 lines by 10 spaces: 0G .,+20s:^: : ok great, now find JUNK and replace 'a1' with 'A1' in the 15 lines tha…

> now find JUNK and replace 'a1' with 'A1' in the 15 lines that follow

The real scenario is usually to replace, for example, in a function block. How do you do that? Counting function lines seems like a non-starter.

Re: How Did Vim Become So Popular?

#132
Distressingly little comment on mode/modeless difference. There are reasons people want to be in a modeless editor, and there are reasons people want a distinction between insert mode and other modes. The primary drive for vi and emacs was the emergence of full screen editing? Sure. That was true, I lived across this window.

But.. it was possible to choose to get a 'page' worth of view of your teco or ed or SOS edit session, and return to a sense of being mid-page, if you wanted. It took some finicky commands but once you decided you needed a screen of context there was a way to do it, and not lose your point in a line. (certainly, not lose the line you are "on")

For a DECwriter, this made very little sense to use frequently. It was best not to have to force it to print a lot of paper. For a slow ADM3/5 or VT100 it made some sense, because the repaint speed was a major pain.

Once you had sufficient responsiveness (2400? I would say that was about it. 4800-> was a no-brainer) then the repaint delay was low enough it was worth the investment.

There was another universe: Half-duplex. We just pretended it didn't exist, and that local mode entry didn't exist and designed systems not to even think about it. Odd, when you think that X10 was primarily about converting from server side to client side burden, which is local mode.

(server/client being reversed concepts in X10/X11 its confusing to talk about this, local being the key point)

I think vi took off, because a substantial proportion of the world did not want to think programmatically in LISP and wanted the reassurance of a moded editor, to do things. Emacs took off for people who wanted to hack the editor, more than the limited vi macro facility, and who wanted to be "in" the editor all the time. VI users wanted to distinguish being "in" the body of text/code and being in 'move around, and think about it' states of mind.

Had I turned left in 1979, I would have walked into a teco training room, and naturally been Emacs ever since. I walked right into a TOPS-10 SOS world, and emerged through PIP into ed and then ex/vi and then vim in the late 201x era. I personally preferred Keith Bostic nvi for a long time, and I still miss some of its innate simplicity. I was a late arrival in colourised editors. (this is not an analogy btw: it was literally random choice which room of two you went into in the first Year CS degree training for computing. We all used punched cards before this, and it was a DECwriter lab with very preciously guarded pre-ANSI terminals, too few to go around. Some of the DECwriters were converted to greek for APL, and we had a tectronix vector display which could be used as a text display device too, if you could stand the burn-in)

What often gets missed, is MIT, X and the emergence of EMACS key bindings as the go-to for line edit in the web. This and bash, had huge influence

So we now have a world of VIM users using classic VI bindings in editor, but using EMACS to do all line edit on the shell an d in the omnibox, all because of MIT and the X windows system and how that influenced graphical display norms when the first browsers emerged.

Re: How Did Vim Become So Popular?

#133
over two decades I used emacs, eclipse, geany, nano, even jetbrains whole bundle purchase plus a few other IDEs, I always return back to vim, recent years I have settle down on vim for good with a full IDE in terminal, I have code auto completion, syntax highlighting, snippets, linter, auto fixers, debugger for all the languages I care, it's just so beautiful and productive as well as powerful and lightweight, can't live without it.

Re: How Did Vim Become So Popular?

#134
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am also surprised by this. What are you basing it on? For arbitrarily comparable online communities, it looks like emacs.stackexchange.com is twice as active as vi.stackexchange.com

> ...the emacs install base is fraction of vi/vim. > What are you basing it on? ... it looks like emacs.stackexchange.com is twice as active as vi.stackexchange.com A couple of things about this. For myself and many others, the reason I started vi in the first place is it's been installed by default on many kinds of machines. On SCO Unix and AIX from my youth, for example, this was the editor you used on a vanilla in…

When I was teaching myself to program, I had a night job in a warehouse. It so happened that the inventory software was on a UNIX server, and we accessed it through a terminal emulator from our windows computer. I discovered one day that I could exit the inventory software and end up with a shell prompt, and that the server had Perl available.

My computer books convinced me that emacs was the better editor, but it wasn’t installed on the server. vi was. So I learned vi and Perl on my lunch breaks.

Re: How Did Vim Become So Popular?

#135
At the interview for the position I'm in currently, the senior programmer I was interviewing with didn't pay much attention to my resume. He mentioned that he saw my .vimrc on Github though, and we chatted about that and other linux things. I think it was just a small connection in a big scheme of things, but it helped.

Re: How Did Vim Become So Popular?

#136

I’ve been using Vim professionally for like ten years now and I can’t tell you what benefits do I get out it exactly. I still use a mouse and I don’t see what’s so bad about it.the whole home row argument has never been convincing.

If you’ve been using Vim for 10 years, and still use the mouse, then you haven’t really been taking advantage of the power of Vim. Perhaps that’s why you don’t see much personal benefit?

Re: How Did Vim Become So Popular?

#137

Speaking personally, I've been a professional developer for almost decade and even in my relatively short career I've seen a lot of technologies come and go. I was reluctantly roped into it by my first boss, an enthusiastic Vim advocate. And since, almost nothing else (save for maybe git) beat learning vim from a return on investment perspective. From the default mac OS installation to some old Fedora box that has no…

If you like vimium, you may also like qutebrowser. It's built with keyboard bindings from the ground up, and is keyboard-first. I can browse most sites without taking my hands off the home row.

never heard about qutebrowser and it can even play netflix, impressive, it's a little memory hungry though, with just netflix running I saw memory is used almost 1GB, while 30 chrome tabs use 4.5GB

Re: How Did Vim Become So Popular?

#138
post #53
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long time vim lover here as well, but I guess I hear often that for a lot of folks, input isn't the bottleneck.

I've been using vim for about 7 years and for me it's not so much about the efficiency as it is the pleasure of commanding (programming!) a powerful, wellmade tool.

This is the same for me, I very recently got over the hump, and finally am a proficient Vim-er! I never cared as much about the efficiency.

Not talked about enough, is the fact that Vim is simply fun. I simply enjoy typing with it. You’re right, it really is a pleasure, and it makes you think about programming differently.

It stimulates a part of my brain regular editors never did. It’s exciting to think about the best way to perform a series of actions, or learn a new command. Or brew up a quick macro to do something wild, no other editor could dream of!

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