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Git Repo of Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests

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Re: Git Repo of Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests

#131
post #116

I think at the very least the title should be Git Repo of Alleged Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests. Like another commenter downthread, I spent some time looking through incident reports in my own State, and found some of them to either be simply unsubstantiated claims, or videos of police reasonably appearing to be doing the very dangerous job of managing a riot. There are valid concerns of the…

Imagine looking at the cacrceral state and saying “you know what, this is a great response to a hard problem”.

Re: Git Repo of Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vast majority of police are heroes. Define "hero". As has been noted many, many times across HN these past few weeks, "police officer" isn't even among the top 15 most dangerous professions in America. And even then police aren't legally required to do their job[1]. Most police are never called upon to do anything heroic, so we can't say if they are heroes or not. This type of blind veneration for police is wei…

Since when is hero defined as "the person who does the most dangerous profession"? Also, there is a world of difference between professions where accidents are common, and a profession where humans may be actively trying to kill you. A hero might be a person who knowingly risks life and limb for the safety and wellbeing of others. Even more heroic when those others are strangers (ie it is more heroic to rescue a stra…

A commonly accepted definition of hero is "performing a duty and/or serving others, even at great danger to oneself, often for little or no reward". So "how dangerous is the job?" seems relevant to me.

> there is a world of difference between professions where accidents are common, and a profession where humans may be actively trying to kill you.

A large fraction of police deaths on the job are traffic accidents.

Re: Git Repo of Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests

#133

As a person that makes decisions based on data, rather than emotions, it would be interesting to see a comparison of the volume of such incidents on both sides. Is there a similar repo of the looting and violence committed by protesters? I think that would give a more accurate picture of all of this. We would then know if the police brutality incidents paled in comparison to violence/looting by the public, or vice ve…

> Is there a similar repo of the looting and violence committed by protesters? Does it matter? They're being investigated and prosecuted regardless[1], because they're criminals. We expect police to behave better than criminals . Society is always going to have some crime, and we will continue to investigate and prosecute it. But there should be zero tolerance for crimes by cops. Otherwise we can't trust them, and ev…

Does it matter?

Where crimes, such as burglary and assault, are being committed, police will generally be called upon to act. A subset of those responses will involve police violence. One would hope that such police violence only occurs in self defense, but we know that to not always be the case. So yes, the two things are mathematically correlated. One drives the other. It would be interesting to be able to tell what the incidence rate is, rather than just seeing a group of cherry-picked incidents designed with the sole intent of satisfying the public's appetite for a specific narrative.

Re: Git Repo of Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there a similar repo of the looting and violence committed by protesters? Does it matter? They're being investigated and prosecuted regardless[1], because they're criminals. We expect police to behave better than criminals . Society is always going to have some crime, and we will continue to investigate and prosecute it. But there should be zero tolerance for crimes by cops. Otherwise we can't trust them, and ev…

Does it matter? Where crimes, such as burglary and assault, are being committed, police will generally be called upon to act. A subset of those responses will involve police violence. One would hope that such police violence only occurs in self defense, but we know that to not always be the case. So yes, the two things are mathematically correlated. One drives the other. It would be interesting to be able to tell wha…

I see what you mean.

Re: Git Repo of Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests

#135
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "vast majority of police" turn a blind eye to crimes their coworkers commmit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_wall_of_silence

I appreciate the link to the Wikipedia article, but I don't see anything about statistics indicating a majority. Did I miss something in my perusing of the article? Edit: I was able to pull this citation from a previous discussion regarding police and perjury: Myron W. Orfield, Jr., Deterrence, Perjury, and the Heater Factor, supra note 13, at 83: > Respondents, including prosecutors, estimate that police commit perj…

If a majority of police are in fact suppressing evidence of wrongdoing, then it would be difficult to prove, because statistics that rely on police reporting are going to be rather suspect.

Re: Git Repo of Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests

#136
post #116

I think at the very least the title should be Git Repo of Alleged Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests. Like another commenter downthread, I spent some time looking through incident reports in my own State, and found some of them to either be simply unsubstantiated claims, or videos of police reasonably appearing to be doing the very dangerous job of managing a riot. There are valid concerns of the…

> The vast majority of police are heroes. Define "hero". As has been noted many, many times across HN these past few weeks, "police officer" isn't even among the top 15 most dangerous professions in America. And even then police aren't legally required to do their job[1]. Most police are never called upon to do anything heroic, so we can't say if they are heroes or not. This type of blind veneration for police is wei…

USA Today says that policing is the 18th most dangerous job in the US.

What makes police injuries and deaths notable from other occupations is that “The most common cause of workplace fatalities among police officers is direct violence from other people”.

It is not just a risky job in general, it is a risky job due to people that would intentionally do them harm, done in service of their community. Everyone is a regular person, but that is why people generally regard police as heroic.

In fact, police are expected to act heroically when the situation calls for it. The Parkland officer who didn’t enter the school during the shooting, caught on tape remaining outside while shots were fired, was rightly condemned as not fit for duty.

[1] - https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/01/08/most-dangero...

Re: Git Repo of Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests

#137
post #116

I think at the very least the title should be Git Repo of Alleged Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests. Like another commenter downthread, I spent some time looking through incident reports in my own State, and found some of them to either be simply unsubstantiated claims, or videos of police reasonably appearing to be doing the very dangerous job of managing a riot. There are valid concerns of the…

> The vast majority of police are heroes.

Citation very much needed.

Re: Git Repo of Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests

#138

From what I saw on Twitter, most of the videos alleging police using force without reason were misleading, and leaving out all the footage preceding police action. In cases where others uploaded longer videos or different angles, it was clear that protesters were acting illegally, or ignoring clear verbal warnings, or refusing lawful orders to disperse, and so on. By leaving those crucial additional bits out, activis…

I don't like this US attitude where people think that once police has given an order to do something you have to comply immediately or you can be shot or run over no matter the situation. I just saw a video where protesters were crowding a police and suddenly the car sped up and ran over people because the cops felt "threatened". Thats just not OK.

This is key. For the sake of argument, let’s assume that unarmed protestors are being very aggressive towards police, even ignoring orders to disperse or follow curfew. Perhaps they are even verbally threatening police!

Should this give police authority to use violent force to retaliate? (E.g. pepper spray, rubber bullets, fists, etc)

In my opinion, no. I realize that legally, police are protected in these scenarios. Hell, most folks understand that. That’s what people are protesting for: they want the legal system to change.

As a society, I think we morally accept using force in self defense (for example, using pepper spray on an assaulter). We accept it even if someone’s life isn’t actually in danger. Should we accept the same from police? I doubt it. We should hold the protectors of the law to higher standards than common citizens, right? I myself might not fully understand the law and will be acting on my emotional response if I use force in self defense. But police officers should have the training to understand much better when lives are actually in danger. They should have techniques to handle situations like this without violence.

These videos show that whether or not the police were acting out of self defense or within the boundaries of the law, they are still using serious force on unarmed citizens. This is not ok whether or not the citizens are in the right.

The root of the problem is the police force. Even if people are acting in a aggressive, rebellious way against police, they are doing so because of decades of improper use of police force. If we want to change the situation, people must feel safe around police. It’s not just “were police legally right,” it’s “do people feel safe in their own communities.” Clearly not, and we must make changes to help people feel safe. To aid with that, police should be much less powerful, since abuse stems from power.

We should all get behind these changes because police brutality is dangerous to everyone, and especially dangerous to minority communities.

Re: Git Repo of Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests

#139
post #116

I think at the very least the title should be Git Repo of Alleged Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests. Like another commenter downthread, I spent some time looking through incident reports in my own State, and found some of them to either be simply unsubstantiated claims, or videos of police reasonably appearing to be doing the very dangerous job of managing a riot. There are valid concerns of the…

When the entire force quit (their duties, not quitting taking a salary) over their coworkers being charged for pushing a elderly man onto the pavement and walking away as he bleeds out of his ears unconscious, then it's 59/59 cops who aren't heroes.

When reporting police misconduct internally is met with being charged with filing a false report and being kicked off the force, or being committed to an institution until you can talk to someone you trust who can leak a recording to the press, yes it is the vast majority police upholding this system that are not heroes.

When in my city, the only cop to be reprimanded was the one stupid enough to instagram post "let's start a riot", but not the others attacking press and attacking peaceful bystanders, sending the institutional message that brutality is OK but you have to keep your mask on wrt to social media, yes the represent a system of institutional oppression.

Re: Git Repo of Police Brutality During the 2020 George Floyd Protests

#140

Just a reminder that none of this is factual or evidence. It COULD be, but just because somebody writes something doesn't make it true. You are not given any of the context of what happened in these situations. If there's video the video starts when the conflict is already full swing, you're not seeing anything that led up to the situation. You can read "Police showed up and fired tear gas and agitated the crowd and…

> You can read "Police showed up and fired tear gas and agitated the crowd and caused violence", but you're not told WHY they fired tear gas. You're not given the context as to what happened. Police have body cameras and vehicle cameras that can provide much of the rest of the context. The public doesn't have access to that video and the police don't release it save when it reinforces their narrative. If the police w…

>If the police were blameless here, they have lots of tools to clear their name.

Is it true though? I saw police actions that looked bad on video, but having been on the scene earlier that day I knew the context that cast it in a very different light. And yet no counter-evidence was published. They did not clear their name, despite being in the right (or much more right than the video shown).

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