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System Hardening in Android 11

security.googleblog.com

91–100 of 211 posts

Re: System Hardening in Android 11

#91
post #19

I'm mostly worried about Termux. I can't imagine a phone without a decent terminal and I feel my options are going to be severely limited.

Likewise. Termux is the killer feature for me. This needs to wait a year or two so a FLOSS phone is ready for daily driving D-:

Netflix, Snapchat, Pokemon Go, Super Mario Run, etc. will intentionally never work on a FLOSS phone, so I doubt it'll ever catch on outside the tiny enthusiast community.

Re: System Hardening in Android 11

#92
post #35
post #19

I'm mostly worried about Termux. I can't imagine a phone without a decent terminal and I feel my options are going to be severely limited.

The option is simple although tiresome, reimplement it in Android Java or Kotlin, instead of trying to pretend Android is Linux, given that POSIX or Linux specific calls aren't even part of NDK Stable APIs documentation. Any app that access the Linux features directly just works out of luck, given that there are no compatibility guarantees.

This doesn't really fix it. Rewriting everything in Java/Kotlin won't magically grant the terminal all of the permissions that it used to have.

Re: System Hardening in Android 11

#94
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Magisk? When you have full control over the system, you can pretend everything to Userspace Apps.

If I understand these SafetyNet changes right, it's now relying on TrustZone, where "trust" frankly means distrusting the end user. This runs on a privilege level above the OS kernel, and it isn't possible to modify that firmware or extract data from it even with the unlocked bootloader, by design. It's currently used for media DRM among other things.

Jeez, WTF. Looks like I have to buy a new tablet (my old one is on its last legs) before this shit hits the markets, no way I'm gonna have a device that is either not rootable at all or keeps me from using mobile banking.

I'm all for more security measures, but not at the cost of giving up my freedom entirely.

Re: System Hardening in Android 11

#95
post #43

Dear Android Product Owner, I want to have control over which Android apps 'auto-run' on my device.

You have - it's in the apps' settings screen called "Allow background activity".

Searching for "allow background activity", I see Android 8\Oreo has https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1367118-oreo-allow-backgr...

I am on Android 9\Pie, and from an app's settings, clicking 'battery', then clicking 'background restriction', I can choose from 'app can use battery in background' or 'restricted'.

But what I originally asking for control over is running at startup.

For example: go to an app like Lyft's settings, Permissions, then "..." in the top-right, and select "All permissions", finally towards the end of the list of all permissions is "run at startup". What I want is to enable\disable "run at startup".

Re: System Hardening in Android 11

#96
post #83

This dumbing down and locking down on phones and computers, is really worring me. I'm a power user which have been using computers as a tool which I have been in control of (more or less), but now things are really turning. Todays phones are in control of us as we lose more or more power of them. Living in Sweden, I am almost forced to use proprietary phones and software, just to live here. Any idea for what a free s…

> forced to use proprietary phones and software, just to live here That sounds doubtful. What kind of "phones" and what kind of software does the Swedish government require you to use? Note that I agree with your general point of locking people and power users out of the hardware they are supposed to be the owners of, it's just that part that kind of detracts from the point (I'm going to go ahead and assume phones an…

They are talking about BankID which is a national identification system that only runs on recent proprietery systems (mostly used on iOS and Android, but IIRC also supported in another version on MacOS and Windows).

There is no linux version available (there used to be a few years ago IIRC), and using U2F or other security devices via open standards is not supported.

It's a pretty OK system (for most people) made much worse (for some people) by not supporting standards they should have years ago. Yubikey is a swedish company, BankID is a swedish company, they both deal with identity online, how they have not actually managed to interoperate is beyond me.

Basically it's a system that caters to the masses and does a pretty good job at that but it's very bad for the non-technical (who don't have a smartphone) and the very technical (who might not use the OS'es that they support). I expect more from a system that most people use to pay their taxes.

There are also any number of security questions from the above, but I'll refrain from those.

Re: System Hardening in Android 11

#97

Dear Android Product Owner, I want to have control over which Android apps 'auto-run' on my device.

This is largely due to a limitation of Android itself. If your app wants to do any sort of background task that's not tied to Google Cloud Messaging, it needs to setup those background tasks. When your phone reboots, those tasks are cleared. Many apps use the "run at startup" permission to receive a notification from the system when startup has completed. It doesn't actually mean the app is running in the background.

Re: System Hardening in Android 11

#98
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understand these SafetyNet changes right, it's now relying on TrustZone, where "trust" frankly means distrusting the end user. This runs on a privilege level above the OS kernel, and it isn't possible to modify that firmware or extract data from it even with the unlocked bootloader, by design. It's currently used for media DRM among other things.

Jeez, WTF. Looks like I have to buy a new tablet (my old one is on its last legs) before this shit hits the markets, no way I'm gonna have a device that is either not rootable at all or keeps me from using mobile banking. I'm all for more security measures, but not at the cost of giving up my freedom entirely.

The vast majority of devices sold today already support the hardware, so you're too late if you feel you're not willing to tolerate this.

Re: System Hardening in Android 11

#99
post #87
post #31

> Prior to the Release of Android 10 we announced a new constrained sandbox for software codecs. We’re really pleased with the results. Thus far, Android 10 is the first Android release since the infamous stagefright vulnerabilities in Android 5.0 with zero critical-severity vulnerabilities in the media frameworks. It wasn't mediatized, but there must have been like a new stagefright-like media library bug every 2-3…

Modern ARM chips are required for Android 11 versions. https://security.googleblog.com/2019/08/adopting-arm-memory-... https://source.android.com/devices/tech/debug/tagged-pointer...

You've mentioned this before but as far as I am aware there are no chips shipping with MTE, and the links you provided don't support this point either. Even if MTE somehow starts shipping tomorrow I cannot see Google dropping support for every device that is older or cheaper than the one flagship that'll use it.

Re: System Hardening in Android 11

#100
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that push notifications also require work on telco's side to make sure they don't accidentally cause large battery use. E.g. there was a long time after Apple introduced push messages where iPhone battery would drain pretty fast because many telcos would have very short connection timeouts on their routing equipment. This forced the phone to wakeup the radio a lot to reestablish connection. This was "fixed" by…

> This forced the phone to wakeup the radio a lot to reestablish connection. Perhaps, but if you can tolerate some latency, you might not have to wake the radio all that much. A huge majority of notification use cases can be delivered "late" (at least if the phone is in sleep mode) and still be useful.

Yes, and I believe both GCM and APNS perform cross-app notification coalescing, whereby a low priority notification (e.g. a news article, or some other content update) will picky-back on a high priority notification (incoming call, text message).

This is extremely valuable in reducing power usage.

(Notifications both exhibit radio usage, but also will typically turn on the display, which is a huge battery sink)

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