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Thousands of U.S. judges who broke laws, oaths remained on the bench

reuters.com

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Re: Thousands of U.S. judges who broke laws, oaths remained on the bench

#31

Post by mcv »

meddlepal wrote: post #5
chidog12 wrote: post #3

> Judge Les Hayes once sentenced a single mother to 496 days behind bars for failing to pay traffic tickets. The sentence was so stiff it exceeded the jail time Alabama allows for negligent homicide. > Johnson’s three children were cast into foster care while she was incarcerated. One daughter was molested, state records show. Another was physically abused. Speechless... Makes my blood boil

This is the kind of stupidity you get with elected judges.

Is it true that all US judges are either elected or politically appointed? Both seem like a terrible idea.

I admit I don't know how judges in other countries are appointed, but I think it usually involves a pretty thorough screening process involving several different requirements and organisations.

Re: Thousands of U.S. judges who broke laws, oaths remained on the bench

#32

Post by tenebrisalietum »

Reedx wrote: post #19
chidog12 wrote: post #3

> Judge Les Hayes once sentenced a single mother to 496 days behind bars for failing to pay traffic tickets. The sentence was so stiff it exceeded the jail time Alabama allows for negligent homicide. > Johnson’s three children were cast into foster care while she was incarcerated. One daughter was molested, state records show. Another was physically abused. Speechless... Makes my blood boil

Seriously, even if she failed to pay 10,000 traffic tickets, how does it do any good to put her behind bars at all? They really couldn't think of a better way to deal with non-violent offense??

Devil's Advocate: Look at a Youtube video of any country where they don't enforce traffic laws. It's chaotic and unsafe. Fear of consequences is the only thing that keeps people somewhat sane on the road, the alternative is chaos or literally having police every quarter mile looking for infractions. Until we have self-driving cars, it's beneficial for society and everyone who has to drive for traffic violations to be punished harshly after a certain threshold.

Devil's Advocate 2: Single motherhood shouldn't entitle you to ignore traffic laws. If anything, if you get more traffic violations, you are more likely unsafe for your children (who have no one else to depend on), so maybe they should be taken away (foster care being worse is a separate issue)

Re: Thousands of U.S. judges who broke laws, oaths remained on the bench

#33

Post by jmoss20 »

logicchop wrote: post #26
chidog12 wrote: post #3

> Judge Les Hayes once sentenced a single mother to 496 days behind bars for failing to pay traffic tickets. The sentence was so stiff it exceeded the jail time Alabama allows for negligent homicide. > Johnson’s three children were cast into foster care while she was incarcerated. One daughter was molested, state records show. Another was physically abused. Speechless... Makes my blood boil

Not to defend the judge in that case in any way, but there is a question about whether/when it is OK or even desirable for judges to intervene "indirectly" with their power. For example (just an example, not suggesting this is how it was), suppose in the case you mention that the mother was suspected of being abusive or negligent, but that a prosecutable case couldn't be made for that, and that the traffic tickets we…

Surely you notice those two points conflict?

1. The judge must understand that the (justice) system is flawed, it's his/her job to bring about justice anyway.

2. The judge must believe the (foster care) system is flawless, it's not his/her job to worry about that.

Re: Thousands of U.S. judges who broke laws, oaths remained on the bench

#34

Post by mcv »

jessaustin wrote: post #16
meddlepal wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of stupidity you get with elected judges.

This position, like most city judges, is not elected. TFA makes this clear: A few months after Judge Hayes’ suspension ended, his term as a municipal judge was set to expire. So, the Montgomery City Council took up the question of the judge’s future on March 6, 2018. On the agenda of its meeting: whether to reappoint Hayes to another four-year term. Everyone on that city council knew, for years, what a terrible judge…

Both political appointments and elections are a bad idea. Both make the appointment of judges a political decision.

Re: Thousands of U.S. judges who broke laws, oaths remained on the bench

#35

Post by CyberDildonics »

logicchop wrote: post #29
Reedx wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, even if she failed to pay 10,000 traffic tickets, how does it do any good to put her behind bars at all? They really couldn't think of a better way to deal with non-violent offense??

I agree with you that failure to pay traffic tickets is hardly grounds for that sentence, and that it would in fact be stupid if those were the grounds. And that is exactly why it is a pretty uncharitable initial interpretation of what happened. There are always publicly cited "endorsable" reasons that must conform to the law, and then there are the underlying messy reasons that actually motivate the decision. It fit…

I don't understand what you are saying. Are there more details that know about this specific case that explain the sentence?

Re: Thousands of U.S. judges who broke laws, oaths remained on the bench

#36

Post by JoeAltmaier »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #35
logicchop wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that failure to pay traffic tickets is hardly grounds for that sentence, and that it would in fact be stupid if those were the grounds. And that is exactly why it is a pretty uncharitable initial interpretation of what happened. There are always publicly cited "endorsable" reasons that must conform to the law, and then there are the underlying messy reasons that actually motivate the decision. It fit…

I don't understand what you are saying. Are there more details that know about this specific case that explain the sentence?

Perhaps contempt. Perhaps a disregard for public safety. Who knows? It of course was outrageous, but there was certainly something going on that pushed the judge's buttons. Because, every traffic violator didn't get that sentence, right?

Re: Thousands of U.S. judges who broke laws, oaths remained on the bench

#37

Post by jessaustin »

mcv wrote: post #34
jessaustin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This position, like most city judges, is not elected. TFA makes this clear: A few months after Judge Hayes’ suspension ended, his term as a municipal judge was set to expire. So, the Montgomery City Council took up the question of the judge’s future on March 6, 2018. On the agenda of its meeting: whether to reappoint Hayes to another four-year term. Everyone on that city council knew, for years, what a terrible judge…

Both political appointments and elections are a bad idea. Both make the appointment of judges a political decision.

Yes I agree that judges should be selected randomly from the general population of people younger than 35 or older than 65. If that's not what you're thinking, please correct my misunderstanding...

Re: Thousands of U.S. judges who broke laws, oaths remained on the bench

#39

Post by stonogo »

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #32
Reedx wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, even if she failed to pay 10,000 traffic tickets, how does it do any good to put her behind bars at all? They really couldn't think of a better way to deal with non-violent offense??

Devil's Advocate: Look at a Youtube video of any country where they don't enforce traffic laws. It's chaotic and unsafe. Fear of consequences is the only thing that keeps people somewhat sane on the road, the alternative is chaos or literally having police every quarter mile looking for infractions. Until we have self-driving cars, it's beneficial for society and everyone who has to drive for traffic violations to be…

You're arguing to the wrong assertion. She was not jailed for traffic infractions. She was jailed for failing to pay fines, which incarceration is expressly against the law. C.f. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/10/07/446681086... for a recent example of this being prosecuted.

Re: Thousands of U.S. judges who broke laws, oaths remained on the bench

#40

Post by bilbo0s »

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #32
Reedx wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, even if she failed to pay 10,000 traffic tickets, how does it do any good to put her behind bars at all? They really couldn't think of a better way to deal with non-violent offense??

Devil's Advocate: Look at a Youtube video of any country where they don't enforce traffic laws. It's chaotic and unsafe. Fear of consequences is the only thing that keeps people somewhat sane on the road, the alternative is chaos or literally having police every quarter mile looking for infractions. Until we have self-driving cars, it's beneficial for society and everyone who has to drive for traffic violations to be…

Devil's Advocate 3: Even if you want to punish someone for unpaid tix? I mean, over a year? Seems a bit excessive to me.
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