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Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

theguardian.com

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Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#141

Post by heavenlyblue »

koheripbal wrote: post #137
danjac wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany was not really a democracy in 1917. It was nominally a constitutional monarchy under the Kaiser, with a very limited parliamentary system elected by male sufferage that could pass budgets but little else. By the end of the war - before the Kaiser abdicated - it was pretty much a defacto military dictatorship run by the General Staff.

An elected parliament that controls the budget is actually a very core part of democracy. Power flows from budgets.

Well, yesterday you’ve controlled the budged, and today you were killed by our special police.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#142

Post by qbaqbaqba »

vetinari wrote: post #126
qbaqbaqba wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to say how Russia would look like without the Revolution. It could be democratic.

Seeing how and where Kerenskij directed Russia after the february coup, we can safely say that Russia would be non-existent. Just like Ottoman or Habsburg empires, that disappeared at the same time.

But Russia would be on the winning side. But that's just some alternative history.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#143

Post by redis_mlc »

redis_mlc wrote: post #25
roenxi wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am the first person to criticise the Russian sphere of influence. They did a terrible job from the rise of the proletariat through to today. Even I could do a better job if left to administer the country. However to call them aggressors is a total perversion of the word aggression. Their posture is backs-to-the-wall defensive in relation to Western powers.

No, Russian doctrine is to occupy neighboring countries to fight outside their own borders. Just because they're afraid of having their "backs-to-the-wall" doesn't mean their doctrine is legitimate.

Description of how Russian military doctrine resulted in the annexation of the Baltic states in WW2:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_state...

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#144

Post by NicoJuicy »

vic9109 wrote: post #135
cogman10 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an alternative to sanctions? I agree they aren't particularly effective, but they seem to be the "kindest" of actions you can take against an oppressive government that might lead to a civilian uprising. History is rife with examples of failures to stop oppressive regimes. Hell, look at North Korea. We fought a war, we've tried sanctions, we've tried lifting sanctions. Sure, they are propped up by China,…

I have no solution to that. The thing that consistently makes me sad is when people attribute the decisions of a government to all its citizens. There are 7b people on this planet, at least 2 of them cannot influence their governments in a meaningful way.

So, between war and trade sanctions.

Trade sanctions still seem to be the better solution, no?

While actually trading could be considered a reward for a decent government and a + for it's civilians.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#145

Post by [deleted] »

rainworld wrote: post #82

Part of the continuing British infowar against Russia. If you want to understand how modern Russia came to be, start with Paul Klebnikov’s Godfather of the Kremlin . Klebnikov, who was in fact murdered for his fearless journalism, very likely by said Godfather, Boris Berezovsky. Berezovsky, who received shelter, protection and more from the UK. Excellent documentaries on the topic: https://youtu.be/oLNKqbwec0s https:…

[deleted]

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#146

Post by monkeycantype »

sitkack wrote: post #123
monkeycantype wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One day I hope to come to your country and travel on horseback. I don't know if there really are forests of apple trees that grow apples I'd need two hands to hold, but if it's true I want to ride through in spring when the trees are in blossom. The few Kazakh people I've mentioned this too, have dismissed the idea with phrases like 'don't bother, it's an ex soviet strongman kleptocracy shit hole with las vegas archi…

This kind of thing is possible starting in eastern Turkey and continues in the rural areas going east. I don't know about security, is probably ok, who knows. But you should do it now, don't wait.

Thanks Sitkack, I have four children. So my adventures are on hold for a bit, and while the risk of this journey may be increasing year on year, in 15 years when the youngest is an adult, my willingness to take on risk is going probably go back up quickly. What I'd really love to do is travel east to west and cross into Mongolia. How important is the radioactive contamination from nuclear testing in along the border?

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#147

Post by pstuart »

eukgoekoko wrote: post #77
willvarfar wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is a book review. What do you think of the book that is being reviewed? Does it go into enough detail, and get its facts straight?

Given all these inaccuracies in this advertising artice I don't feel too much convinced. I'd recommend everyone reading the book by Paul Khlebnikov https://books.google.de/books?id=vb2ZAAAAIAAJ&redir_esc=y which gives a detailed insider view on Russian politics of that era. BTW, writing this book has costed the guy his life. As for "Putin's People" it looks like an another unwitting attempt to cash in on anti-Putin h…

> anti-Putin hysteria

Interesting wording. Russia used to scare me in the context of nuclear war, but the fact that Putin's influence is now controlling Trump and the GOP (and elsewhere), I feel rightfully frightened.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#148

Post by lovelyviking »

gdy wrote: post #117
lovelyviking wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you rather stand nearby and do nothing when Hitler was starting to kill and occupy? Well, Russia is doing exactly the same now. Russia took part of Ukraine, Russia is killing Ukrainians as we speak ... and they plan to do more ... Would you prefer that 'love' attitude toward all kinds of scumbags?

"Would you rather stand nearby and do nothing when Hitler was starting to kill and occupy?" What were you doing when the US invaded Iraq in 2003?

Thanking US for stopping another dictator-sick-head. From your question and history of your comments I can presume that your empathies are with dictators and other scumbags. This is of course how it should be for a proper Russian propaganda. It's well established tradition of Russia to protect all sorts of scumbags and dictators. Also Russia started a WWII with their ally Hitler together attacking Poland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6gg1z5DovI

I know it's sad for some to see another dictator down, but that is how it should be with every dictator.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#149

Post by gdy »

lovelyviking wrote: post #148
gdy wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Would you rather stand nearby and do nothing when Hitler was starting to kill and occupy?" What were you doing when the US invaded Iraq in 2003?

Thanking US for stopping another dictator-sick-head. From your question and history of your comments I can presume that your empathies are with dictators and other scumbags. This is of course how it should be for a proper Russian propaganda. It's well established tradition of Russia to protect all sorts of scumbags and dictators. Also Russia started a WWII with their ally Hitler together attacking Poland. https://www…

Saddam got what he deserved, but the people of Iraq didn't deserved what came to them -- about half a million deaths[1] and later the rise of ISIS. Total number of people dead in the aftermath of American invasion is now bigger than the number of Saddams victims.

Do you know that the US supported Saddam in his war of agression against Iran? [0] Saddam could've been hanged much earlier and countless lives could've been saved if not for American support of scumbag and dictator.

As for WW2, please read about the Munich agreement.[2]

[0]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Ir...

[1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_c...

[2]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement

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