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The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

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Re: The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

#221

Post by sukilot »

toss1 wrote: post #93
tialaramex wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you that has a transaction tax on account transfers? Not the US certainly, and not anywhere in the EU.

depends on the nature of the transaction & the parties - 'transfer/transaction taxes aren't the only issue Sales or gift taxes could apply. So could import /export taxes depending on the endpoints. Could it appear as income/gains to one party or another? etc... of course it can often be structured to avoid such taxes, but it requires forethought. I wouldn't even think of making a $multi-million move without first con…

$Million is pretty simple. That's an everyday real estate purchase is a major US city. Tens to hundreds of millions is different. But even tens could be handled by any attorney in the field. That's estate planning level.

Re: The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

#222

Post by sukilot »

mindcandy wrote: post #135
ipython wrote: post #39

Unpopular opinion: why do we care so much about making it cheaper for rich people to move money around? Do we think somehow that will “trickle down” to us mere mortals and put western union and their ilk out of business?

Remittances are one of the big, obvious use cases where crypto can save poor people a ton of money. To the tune of a collective $40-50 billion a year. https://academy.binance.com/blockchain/blockchain-use-cases-...

Poor (and rich) people get computer viruses all the time. Put a Bitcoin wallet on everyone's machine and remittance fees would be a drop in the ocean compared to theft.

Re: The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

#223

Post by koonsolo »

jpkoning wrote: post #16

If we both join the bitcoin network, we can exchange $1B for $0.48. If we both join set up accounts at a regular bank like RBC, we can exchange $1B for free. The point I'm making is that fees are not bitcoin's strong point. Any financial network can undercut it. What is unique about bitcoin is that not everyone can get an account at RBC, but anyone can join the more expensive bitcoin network.

You don't seem to know much about banking and large sums of money in practice.

Let me give you an example which I know exists: EU airliner buys an airplane at Boeing. How do you transfer the money?

This is how they do it today: They are at Boeing where the transfer needs to go through. The money needs to be transferred then and there. So airliner calls their bank to transfer the money. But there is a 9 hour difference, so they need to wait when EU bank opens, but before the US bank closes. Call the bank, transfer first to UK bank (I can't remember why they had to do this :(), confirm money is there. Then transfer from UK to US, confirm that the money is there. This all before the US bank closes of course. Very cumbersome and James Bond like.

And I'm not an expert in international money transfers, but I'm guessing it's not 0.

Re: The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

#224

Post by JoshuaDavid »

thekuanysh wrote: post #177
erfgh wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do have to trust yourself to have 100% flawless security because one slip and you lose that $1B to a Chinese hacker with no hope of ever getting it back.

Why do you have to add “Chinese”?

I think it's serving as shorthand for "in a country halfway around the world, with a government that isn't going to intervene on your behalf as a foreigner even if you figure out who did it and hand them the evidence on a silver platter".

Re: The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

#225

Post by moksly »

koonsolo wrote: post #223
jpkoning wrote: post #16

If we both join the bitcoin network, we can exchange $1B for $0.48. If we both join set up accounts at a regular bank like RBC, we can exchange $1B for free. The point I'm making is that fees are not bitcoin's strong point. Any financial network can undercut it. What is unique about bitcoin is that not everyone can get an account at RBC, but anyone can join the more expensive bitcoin network.

You don't seem to know much about banking and large sums of money in practice. Let me give you an example which I know exists: EU airliner buys an airplane at Boeing. How do you transfer the money? This is how they do it today: They are at Boeing where the transfer needs to go through. The money needs to be transferred then and there. So airliner calls their bank to transfer the money. But there is a 9 hour differenc…

That’s not how large transfers work at all though. Banks have international agreements, or go through 3rd parties that have. You’ll also never be expected to pay right then and there, if you’re a respectable enterprise entity, the other part will expect you to pay and the funds to arrive within reasonable time, which can be half a year later.

As for the transfers themselves, they are typically free. You’re such a big customer to the bank, and so is the recipient to their bank, that the banks are earning their money without taking transfer fees.

The most important part, and the reason things like bitcoin will never replace old school banking, is that you can roll the money back or cancel if you decide to walk away from the deal like Norwegian just did for 90something Boeing aircraft that they can no longer afford because of corona. Sure you’ll spend a few years in legal, but that’s besides the point.

Re: The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

#226

Post by newguy1234 »

ipython wrote: post #39

Unpopular opinion: why do we care so much about making it cheaper for rich people to move money around? Do we think somehow that will “trickle down” to us mere mortals and put western union and their ilk out of business?

Crypto has use cases for the average joe as well.

Re: The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

#227

Post by [deleted] »

enumjorge wrote: post #171
alexmingoia wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had my life savings (all funds in my bank account) frozen, without notice, without explanation, and without recourse for 3 weeks. They literally couldn’t tell me why my account was frozen besides “social security has flagged the account.” This was at one of the largest banks in US. I never committed any crime or suspected of one, or had any weird transactions. When I protested at the branch asking how I’m supposed…

I’d argue that with Bitcoin being volatile enough to have double percentage point swings in a single day, that you’re not in full control of your money with Bitcoin either.

[deleted]

Re: The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

#228

Post by MathCodeLove »

beaner wrote: post #182
thekuanysh wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you have to add “Chinese”?

Who cares? It could be anything. Random descriptions add flavor. Bitcoin is also popular in China anyway.

Not Chinese, I also care. That comment is an example of subtle racism.

Image the following comment: "You better buy a good bike lock, else you're at risk of having it stolen by a black man."

A comment like the one above would spark near universal outrage at the commenter, and with good reason. It's racist, and the original comment here is the same. Unnecessarily racist.

Re: The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

#229

Post by newguy1234 »

sammycdubs wrote: post #46

I don't want to sound like a narc, but it seems like a really good idea to have some degree of oversight and safeguards on financial transactions of that magnitude.

The risk of doing that is if an authoritarian regime gains power then they can effectively black list you from the financial system. This is absolutely an issue in certain countries.

Re: The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

#230

Post by sukilot »

alexmingoia wrote: post #154
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, and banks + the government do just that; large transactions, or 'pattern' transactions flag up in fraud and money laundering departments and are investigated. But, bitcoin is free of oversight or centralized control, which was the exact point of the system.

I had my life savings (all funds in my bank account) frozen, without notice, without explanation, and without recourse for 3 weeks. They literally couldn’t tell me why my account was frozen besides “social security has flagged the account.” This was at one of the largest banks in US. I never committed any crime or suspected of one, or had any weird transactions. When I protested at the branch asking how I’m supposed…

I'd start with two separate accounts, less likely to be frozen simultaneously. After that, I'd try holding some cash in a safe somewhere. Or prepay rent for a free months. Or keep some money in a friend or family account. Bitcoin would be lower on my list.
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