EFF and heavyweight legal team will defend Internet Archive against publishers
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Re: EFF and heavyweight legal team will defend Internet Archive against publishers
#2EFF is on the wrong side of both the law and common sense here and they will lose no matter how much they pay their legal team. Internet archive didn’t just steal from ‘publishers’ they are also stealing from authors big and small. You don’t get to give out free digital copies of books to people without permission and expect to get away with it.
This exact digital/physical equivalence idea has already been through the courts (for movies/television) and it failed miserably:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VidAngel
> In June 2019, a jury ordered VidAngel to pay over $62 million in damages for copyright violations.
Re: EFF and heavyweight legal team will defend Internet Archive against publishers
#3EFF is on the wrong side of both the law and common sense here and they will lose no matter how much they pay their legal team. Internet archive didn’t just steal from ‘publishers’ they are also stealing from authors big and small. You don’t get to give out free digital copies of books to people without permission and expect to get away with it. This exact digital/physical equivalence idea has already been through th…
Agreed. However, I would expect the EFF to (possibly) be good negotiators. They might be able to make a settlement that keeps the IA's website open while satisfying the publishers - or at least making the lawsuit complicated enough that the publishers won't keep going.
Without this representation, the publishers could almost certainly bankrupt the IA, even if they are given the minimum infringement fine of $200/ea.
Re: EFF and heavyweight legal team will defend Internet Archive against publishers
#4EFF is on the wrong side of both the law and common sense here and they will lose no matter how much they pay their legal team. Internet archive didn’t just steal from ‘publishers’ they are also stealing from authors big and small. You don’t get to give out free digital copies of books to people without permission and expect to get away with it. This exact digital/physical equivalence idea has already been through th…
Agreed. However, I would expect the EFF to (possibly) be good negotiators. They might be able to make a settlement that keeps the IA's website open while satisfying the publishers - or at least making the lawsuit complicated enough that the publishers won't keep going. Without this representation, the publishers could almost certainly bankrupt the IA, even if they are given the minimum infringement fine of $200/ea.
To note, bankrupting IA doesn't make digital copies of these books go away. It'll just accelerate Library Genesis [1] while burning down a cultural archive.
The Internet Archive needs to be reasonable, as they operate within US jurisdiction. Other projects need not (LibGen, SciHub, etc). If operating outside of the US (and other countries that are a party to the Berne Convention) is required due to publishers continuing to embrace overly restrictive copyright law, that is what will be done by those interested in this sort of work.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_Genesis ("As of 28 July 2019, Library Genesis claims to have more than 2.4 million non-fiction books, 80 million science magazine articles, 2 million comics files, 2.2 million fiction books, and 0.4 million magazine issues.")
contrast with IA's OpenLibrary corpus (with Controlled Lending):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Library ("In total, the Open Library offers over 1.4 million books for digital lending.")
Re: EFF and heavyweight legal team will defend Internet Archive against publishers
#5[deleted]
Re: EFF and heavyweight legal team will defend Internet Archive against publishers
#6EFF is on the wrong side of both the law and common sense here and they will lose no matter how much they pay their legal team. Internet archive didn’t just steal from ‘publishers’ they are also stealing from authors big and small. You don’t get to give out free digital copies of books to people without permission and expect to get away with it. This exact digital/physical equivalence idea has already been through th…
Agreed. However, I would expect the EFF to (possibly) be good negotiators. They might be able to make a settlement that keeps the IA's website open while satisfying the publishers - or at least making the lawsuit complicated enough that the publishers won't keep going. Without this representation, the publishers could almost certainly bankrupt the IA, even if they are given the minimum infringement fine of $200/ea.
It is possible that this is one outcome that the EFF is hoping for by joining this particular bit of litigation, but I just do not see it working out that well. No one, outside of a small group of techies, knows about or cares about the EFF; having the EFF formally on the IA side is not going to move the needle much in terms of PR. On the other hand, having the EFF on the opposition may galvanize the publishers to not negotiate at all and go for a big win in court just for the sake of chalking up a win against the EFF (who is often supportive of causes and groups that are opposed to the publishers.)
Make no mistake here, the IA _will_ lose this case and the publishers _will_ bankrupt the IA. There are few things that I can say are almost certainly a foregone conclusion, and the IA losing this case is one of them.
Re: EFF and heavyweight legal team will defend Internet Archive against publishers
#7I recognize some of the names here. This will be a case to watch, which ever way it goes the constructions allowed here will percolate through the law for years to come. This case hinges on the exact wording of the law that authorizes the National Emergency Library. IIRC, it basically gives copyright impunity during a declared national emergency. As far as I am aware, the coronavirus declared national emergency is still in effect. IA loses by attrition, is my guess. Many rounds of "Preliminary" injunctions and orders will stop thier income streams, then they die.
Re: EFF and heavyweight legal team will defend Internet Archive against publishers
#8I recognize some of the names here. This will be a case to watch, which ever way it goes the constructions allowed here will percolate through the law for years to come. This case hinges on the exact wording of the law that authorizes the National Emergency Library. IIRC, it basically gives copyright impunity during a declared national emergency. As far as I am aware, the coronavirus declared national emergency is st…
What law does explicitly allow the NEL?
If I recall correctly, the Internet Archive decided unilaterally that they would do this due to many libraries being closed.
I (not in the US) do not remember any changes to the copyright act being passed to allow this.
Edit to add: They offered this globally and therefore disregarded any laws in countries which have already settled this issue. (Hint: to my knowledge not in a way that favors their interpretation)
Re: EFF and heavyweight legal team will defend Internet Archive against publishers
#9EFF is on the wrong side of both the law and common sense here and they will lose no matter how much they pay their legal team. Internet archive didn’t just steal from ‘publishers’ they are also stealing from authors big and small. You don’t get to give out free digital copies of books to people without permission and expect to get away with it. This exact digital/physical equivalence idea has already been through th…
Remind me not to donate to EFF. This money and time would be better spent on fighting EARN IT.
The Internet Archive's best bet is to settle and apologize very publicly.
Re: EFF and heavyweight legal team will defend Internet Archive against publishers
#10I recognize some of the names here. This will be a case to watch, which ever way it goes the constructions allowed here will percolate through the law for years to come. This case hinges on the exact wording of the law that authorizes the National Emergency Library. IIRC, it basically gives copyright impunity during a declared national emergency. As far as I am aware, the coronavirus declared national emergency is st…
What law does explicitly allow the NEL? If I recall correctly, the Internet Archive decided unilaterally that they would do this due to many libraries being closed. I (not in the US) do not remember any changes to the copyright act being passed to allow this. Edit to add: They offered this globally and therefore disregarded any laws in countries which have already settled this issue. (Hint: to my knowledge not in a w…
There is no law permitting this - IA main legal argument it:
> Our principal legal argument for controlled digital lending is that fair use— an “equitable rule of reason”—permits libraries to do online what they have always done with physical collections under the first sale doctrine: lend books
http://blog.archive.org/2020/03/30/internet-archive-responds...
They are saying digital is equivalent to physical which is the same exact argument vidangel tried and lost a year or two ago