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The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

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Re: The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

#181
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. You can bribe the miners with your old private key if you act fast enough :)

How do you contact a miner? Can you give an example of this? I've read this before but I'm curious to learn more specifics.

Assuming miners are smart, you can 'bribe' them without ever speaking to them.

Your coins have been transfered to Mr Evil in block number 6000.

Simply publish a transaction which pays your $1B in bitcoins to another address you control with a $200M transaction fee.

Any rational miner who sees this will decide to 'undo' Mr Evils transaction and all that occur after it by acting as if those transactions don't exist. They will mine your new transaction as part of a new block number 6000, and pocket the $200M for themselves. However, they will need to make sure their block number 6000 remains part of the chain.

By the time they've done this, block number 6001 and 6002 have been mined on top of Mr Evils transaction in block 6000. That means someone must mine block 6001 and 6002 again, at significant computatonal cost. To do that, the miner who mined the new block 6000 can incentivise others to work on top of their block by paying the 200M to themselves, but again with a big fee.

The above only works if all miners are rational, and have coded this strategy into their mining pools. Are there examples of this happening in practice? (There will be public evidence of it in the blockchain).

Re: The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

#182
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do have to trust yourself to have 100% flawless security because one slip and you lose that $1B to a Chinese hacker with no hope of ever getting it back.

Why do you have to add “Chinese”?

Who cares? It could be anything. Random descriptions add flavor. Bitcoin is also popular in China anyway.

Re: The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

#183

If we both join the bitcoin network, we can exchange $1B for $0.48. If we both join set up accounts at a regular bank like RBC, we can exchange $1B for free. The point I'm making is that fees are not bitcoin's strong point. Any financial network can undercut it. What is unique about bitcoin is that not everyone can get an account at RBC, but anyone can join the more expensive bitcoin network.

> It should be ready at the maximum in a couple of days and I will forward it to you as soon as I have it.

And, barring a collusion of miners, virtually noone could have prevented or reverted that transaction.

Re: The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me when a blockchain-backed remittance service reaches even a small fraction of the customer-base of companies like Transferwise or CurrencyFair. If it was an efficient way to cut on fees, everyone would do it. Yet almost nobody does.

That strikes me as more of an implementation detail. Day-to-day cryptocurrency use still requires a level of technical sophistication my grandma isn't comfortable with.

Bitcoin has been around for 12 years. The UX around cryptocurrencies is still crap.

Re: The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

#185
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do have to trust yourself to have 100% flawless security because one slip and you lose that $1B to a Chinese hacker with no hope of ever getting it back.

Why do you have to add “Chinese”?

Should've written Israeli

Re: The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

#186
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you not heard of M-Pesa? Very popular mobile phone-based money transfer service, low fees ( far less than $3 or the 30% you claim), you can even pay companies directly with it

Yes I've heard of it. So bitcoin is this but better. I agree with you.

lol even the main people behind Bitcoin Core development have abandoned the idea of Bitcoin serving as means of day-to-day small transactions.

Re: The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are, there is also a parallel global economy that allows for obtaining goods, services and investing in private equity or other assets directly using bitcoin, so those conversion fees are not an issue for the bitcoin owner. To counter the easiest rebuttal, there probably are only about $1bn worth of things to buy using bitcoin any given day, most of which are other new digital assets that would not be a great i…

Yeah, if you're fully buying into BTC, doing BTC transfer makes obvious sense. I was trying to see which is cheaper for the use case of "I hold USD in the US, I want to spend it locally as HKD in Hong Kong", which I think is what pbhjpbhj is asking.

yes that is one use case of digital assets like BTC: converting any international money transfer to a domestic money transfer, greatly reducing compliance flags, time and possibilities of banking errors that no bank wants to be accountable for and figure out themselves. often times leaving no record in payment networks like SWIFT, because only two local payment networks were used, one in their respective monetary union.

the cost is 100% tied to liquidity of that market. the bigger and deeper the market, the lower the transaction cost.

It is more likely that HKD's bitcoin market would be less liquid than USD's bitcoin market, so you would want your bank in Hong Kong to accept a USD deposit from a local OTC broker, and then convert to HKD at that point if you wanted or needed it.

Re: The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

#189
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do have to trust yourself to have 100% flawless security because one slip and you lose that $1B to a Chinese hacker with no hope of ever getting it back.

Why do you have to add “Chinese”?

I'd be more worried about the Elbonians

Re: The largest unknown Bitcoin wallet moved nearly $1B for $0.48 in fees

#190

If we both join the bitcoin network, we can exchange $1B for $0.48. If we both join set up accounts at a regular bank like RBC, we can exchange $1B for free. The point I'm making is that fees are not bitcoin's strong point. Any financial network can undercut it. What is unique about bitcoin is that not everyone can get an account at RBC, but anyone can join the more expensive bitcoin network.

Are you trying to argue that a financial transaction - a service provided by a bank where THEY take all the risk and responsibility of said transfer - should be free of charge? I mean if I transferred a billion and my bank made a mistake, I would not lose any money. Make a typo in your bitcoin transaction, and you're screwed.

They do not "take all the risk". In fact, they have none of the risk. If your money disappears, you can only recover $250K through FDIC insurance. For the rest you will have to get into a lengthy legal battle with the bank.
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