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Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

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Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#491

Post by bitreality »

daveoc64 wrote: post #212
jpkoning wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is good news on the competition front. The traditional problem with bank-to-bank transfers in a retail, or point-of-sale, setting has been speed. Cheque was about the fastest that could be mustered. But with developments like UK Faster Payments (which is mentioned in your link) bank-to-bank transfers are getting faster, in some cases instant. And so usability at the point-of-sale is now on par with cards. In Hol…

I can't really see bank transfers taking of at the point of sale in the UK. Making a payment with most banking apps is very clunky - especially for the first time with 2FA. As a consumer, a credit or debit card gives me a lot of protection. I wouldn't give that up for anything (oh, and the cashback I get too).

I have some competitors in the UK who told me that if a single customer pays you from a frauded bank account, your entire bank account is closed permanently, and they investigate with the police.

They also assume you are involved in the illegal activity and you have to interview at the bank. All this for what can amount to a 20-50 GBP payment, and even if it represents If bank payments are going to become prevalent in e-commerce, this type of primitive reaction to fraud will need to improve drastically.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#492

Post by alt_f4 »

omosubi wrote: post #453
alt_f4 wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For fuck's sake, do some basic research. Literally at the top of the wikipedia article: > Visa does not issue cards, extend credit or set rates and fees for consumers; rather, Visa provides financial institutions with Visa-branded payment products that they then use to offer credit, debit, prepaid and cash-access programs to their customers.

That doesn't make it any less of a duopoly. The whole point of the article is that visa/mc have too much power and there is a lot of systemic risk by having only two competitors in this industry in particular. Even if they aren't extending credit they're still facilitating the transaction - it's not like the visa sticker is on there for marketing purposes

Not what we're talking about in the OP comment.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#493

Post by bitreality »

rtpg wrote: post #189
PeterisP wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not seeing a "mainstream-ization of the crypto currencies". A few years ago, quite a few local businesses were experimenting with accepting cryptocurrency payments, and I could buy all kinds of stuff and services using bitcoin. I could order a pizza with bitcoin, I could buy electronics at a major retailer, I could buy plane tickets, I could pay for lunch in a local cafe. That's not the case any more, by now all…

Crpyto isn't mainstreaming but you are having a mainstream-ization of non-CC digital payments. Venmo is the thing in the US, but China has Alipay/Wepay, SE asia has various digital payment apps, Japan has had a huge "cashless" push in the past 12 months.... If I were running a retail shop in the US I definitely would accept payment by Venmo if I could.

Yes, apps like Venmo/CashApp/Zelle have grown massively in the US over the past 2 years. However, there's still limited options for merchants to integrate these payments into ecommerce systems in a way which allows the customer to make payments through a website.

It's hard to say whether these apps are actually focused on B2C transactions, so far it's almost entirely C2C (P2P).

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#494

Post by bitreality »

mc10 wrote: post #305
briandear wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple Pay is the thing. And it makes peer to peer money moving simple while not violating privacy like Venmo. You can use Apple Cash or a payment card. It’s all pretty easy — and private. Venmo is a privacy nightmare. You can use Apple Pay without even having a debit or credit card.

Apple Pay doesn't solve anything on the merchant's side. There's just nothing in the US with the simplicity and affordability as the various payment apps in Asian countries. For instance, in China WeChat Pay only charges 0.1% above 10,000 RMB (from what various articles say). Square is not even in the same category, charging 2.6% + 10¢. And you don't need to buy any equipment to use WeChat Pay; you just need to pull…

This is all possible because China has standardized bank to bank transactions across all banks in the country. It sets the tone for secure P2P transactions at fractions of the cost of a regular Credit Card payment.

This allows people to on-board to WeChat Pay easily through online banking. They also have way less KYC hurdles, so people can go from signing up to sending money in minutes.

US online banking is eons behind China, and almost any other country. So many online banking systems in the US are prone to unauthorized access, which makes on-boarding and security highly inefficient.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#496

Post by komali2 »

alt_f4 wrote: post #492
omosubi wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make it any less of a duopoly. The whole point of the article is that visa/mc have too much power and there is a lot of systemic risk by having only two competitors in this industry in particular. Even if they aren't extending credit they're still facilitating the transaction - it's not like the visa sticker is on there for marketing purposes

Not what we're talking about in the OP comment.

That's what I was talking about - even if they aren't charging fees, they're involved.

There's plenty of cases in technology where "but we don't do anything with your data!" is not a good enough excuse. Many of us still argue for decentralization or federation or user controlled data, etc. Similar concerns I have for visa.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#497

Post by komali2 »

alt_f4 wrote: post #449
komali2 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every debit card I've had has still involved a credit card company in some way - they've all had the visa logo on them.

For fuck's sake, do some basic research. Literally at the top of the wikipedia article: > Visa does not issue cards, extend credit or set rates and fees for consumers; rather, Visa provides financial institutions with Visa-branded payment products that they then use to offer credit, debit, prepaid and cash-access programs to their customers.

I get the impression you don't think much of me. That's ok, but why did you feel the need to tell me?

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#498

Post by unethical_ban »

bagacrap wrote: post #463
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen many stories of legal and legitimate businesses for things like weed (legal in the stores location) and legal porn sites getting their merchant accounts shut down because the payment processors just don't want them to deal with it leaving cash as the only option.

Weed is still federally illegal in all locations in the US.

Good point that perhaps "regulation" is not a good thing, and that the most free, common payment method is the decentralized one: cash.

People laugh about bitcoin, and the implementation surely has its drawbacks, but the idea of a decentralized digital payment system is alluring.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#499

Post by webmaven »

numpad0 wrote: post #275
argonaut wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it -- bringing up Amex and Discover is like bringing up Bing and DuckDuckGo when people talk about the Google monopoly.

Also it’s like bringing up search alone when talking about web. In reality an intermediary called “payment processor” handle all CC brands in single system and they are the ones enforcing ideological punishments to merchants. Like there’s web search and web browser, card networks and payment processors both should be brought up.

> In reality an intermediary called “payment processor” handle all CC brands in single system and they are the ones enforcing ideological punishments to merchants.

Yes, payment processors enforce the rules, but don't typically make the rules.

As I am sure you can imagine, this can result in plausible-deniability-type finger pointing ("we don't make the rules" / "we're not responsible for the rules being misapplied") when an organization is cut off.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#500

Post by pnutjam »

orthoxerox wrote: post #407
consp wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bringing cash to a bank either via deposit boxes or by collection is not free and coinage is even more expensive than paper. At least here in Europe

Yes, the fee for processing coinage and old notes is 50% in the bank I work for.

Wow, I just pour my coins into a machine that sorts and counts them for free at my bank.. oh right.. Credit Union!
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