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Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

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Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#891

Post by kerkeslager »

bhawks wrote: post #786
kerkeslager wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can confront fascism with truth, because the goal of that is to inform those reading the conversation, not to persuade the fascist. You're literally saying that because they're not playing our game, we should let fascists control what game is played.

The meme that you can't have a conversation with a person that changes their perspective and ideologies is a false and harmful one. Look at Daryl Davis's amazing work getting over 200 klansmembers to turn away from the klan through honest conversation. Is it easy? Of course not. But it's not impossible to reach people - it happens every day. https://twitter.com/RealDarylDavis https://youtu.be/oGTQ0Wj6yIg

Wow, that's really interesting. Thanks for posting that.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#892

Post by tarsinge »

postphoned wrote: post #856
tarsinge wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t even about picking a political side. Being racist, misogynist, or calling to violence is not an opinion, it’s even downright illegal in some countries. There are plenty of subreddits on the political spectrum for example on economic theories, socialistic or capitalistic, or the pro/limiting immigration. But the line is clear with hateful content.

>Being racist, misogynist, or calling to violence is not an opinion I agree, the anti-white racism and misandry which has become so commonplace under the disguise of 'anti-racism' and feminism has to end.

On principle yes. But I don't know where you live where this is commonplace, do you really see that in your daily life in the real world? There are misandrist feminists, but look further than Twitter drama, most feminists in real life are pretty compassionate with men. For example the concept of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_masculinity despite what you may think is mostly about psychological distress and suffering on men. Same with anti-racists activists, it's mostly about compassion for other human beings in real life, anti-white racism is a fringe thing.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#893

Post by kerkeslager »

bobthepanda wrote: post #796
kerkeslager wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How effective has "confronting fascism with the truth" ever been? When white people were afraid of black violence, Martin Luther King showed them black people peacefully hand in hand with ministers in their Sunday best, walking toward Selma and remaining nonviolent even as they were met with violence. When straight people saw gay people as dangerous deviants, Harvey Milk showed them gay people in their families, jo…

It is worth noting that MLK was not popular in his time: > Back in the 1960s, when King was actually leading protests, just 36 percent of white Americans thought he was helping “the Negro cause of civil rights,” according to historical polling data compiled by the Roper Center for Public Opinion Research. In a 1966 Gallup poll, more than 60 percent of the public rated King more negatively than positively. > After Kin…

Is that worth noting? Why?

Change isn't a popularity contest. If King changed views on black voting rights from 20% for to 40% for, that's a pretty massive change.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#894

Post by kerkeslager »

saganus wrote: post #790
kerkeslager wrote: post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How effective has "confronting fascism with the truth" ever been, when the fascist is not being upfront about it, but rather posting hundreds of subtly racist memes and dog whistles to reddit? I don't feel like I did this question justice with my previous answer. The most obvious example would be the George Floyd video, and in a larger sense, the extremely effective tool of filming police as they harass, plant evid…

What the fuck did I just see? That second video is revolting. I don't think I can correctly articulate my thoughts after watching that. Wow. Just wow.

Share it around. The world needs to know that Philip Brailsford is a murderer, and Mesa PD and Maricopa County DA think murder is okay if it's done by a cop.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#895

Post by novia »

kabacha wrote: post #828
whateveracct wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly current discourse does equate those two things. Being gender critical ("gender is fake and a tool of patriarchal oppression") is equated with erasing & attacking trans people - politically these two parties do seem to be at odds.

Is discourse regarding trans-gender really necessary though? It seems something a bunch of spoiled elitist bigots would discuss as their way to express distaste for plebs and pretends it's some sort of philosophical debate. Someone's interpretation of their own sexuality or gender affects no one but themselves. You can discuss it over at /r/philosophy if your intentions are truly analytical.

> Someone's interpretation of their own sexuality or gender affects no one but themselves.

This section was already covered by another user, but I'd like to provide an example too:

So, you fall in love with someone, and marry them. You have children with them and you have a nice family. Everything is going great until one day ... they confess to you that they have always felt like they were the opposite gender. This was not disclosed to you before you said your vows.

You want to support them because you love them so you encourage them to treat their dysphoria. You think it will be fine.

But then it turns out that when they begin to transition hormonally, you're no longer attracted to them. This is no fault of your own, sexuality is what it is, but you kinda feel like the person you were in love with has died. Your marriage falls apart. You're hurt. You feel vaguely betrayed even though you weren't really.

Whenever you try to talk to someone about what happened, just to vent, they all take your ex-spouse's side.

This is the content that was in a lot of the posts on GenderCritical. People who were hurting who wanted a place to vent about something a SPECIFIC person in their life did without automatically being labeled transphobic for working through their feelings.

Additionally, all the posters there were cis women. Men and trans women were asked to go somewhere else. Occasionally they would make exceptions and allow trans men to post, but for the most part it was cis women.

People who don't know better think of GenderCritical as aligned with the alt-right, but basically they are a despised part of the left. They would vote in the interest of women, being feminists, which meant NOT voting with the alt-right.

One of the main reasons they asked men to go elsewhere was because more often than not, those posters WOULD be aligned with the alt-right, and they would not have the best interests of women in mind when discussing things. Alt-right men would just see a subreddit that seemed to be for bashing trans people and be like "Sweet! This is my new home." and all the radical feminists would be like "nuh uh, out."

Source: I starting doing a deep dive into this community about a year ago to attempt to understand them.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#896

Post by Eezee »

joshschreuder wrote: post #845
newguy1234 wrote: post #843

I don't know how many will see the comment but I was a member of the_donald sub and subsequently migrated to the new thedonald.win There is a significant shift going on that people aren't realizing. The days of the "platform" being a monopoly over users is coming to an end. The cost of running a website, even a bandwidth heavy website is going lower. As major social networks and platforms crack down on controversial…

It's ranked 8,648 from what I can tell https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/thedonald.win I have never heard of the other sites you mention, so I can't speak to their popularity. But as far as I can see this all seems very fringe for lack of a better word. There doesn't really seem to be a groundswell of movement towards alternate platforms because of censorship.

Calling bitchute fringe seems to be very kind. I just took a look at their front page and they are promoting videos about Holocaust denial and 2 of the first 10 videos are blatantly antisemitic.

Parker requires an account, which I'm not willing to make, but if it's similar to the last conservative Twitter alternative Gab, it's all just racist drivel with barely any 'normal' conversations.

While alternatives to the big corporate social media are obviously needed, they very often attract the most toxic members of society, which most sane people won't be comfortable associating with.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#897

Post by collinmanderson »

Meekro wrote: post #755
FireBeyond wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lots of people have lost their jobs for criticizing BLM I think you'd need to cite cases where it was for objective criticism of BLM, and not associated/ tangential calls for violence, and/or hate speech.

Here are a few dozen examples: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1269314030663012352.html

Quoting some of the extreme examples:

> 3/ Gordon Klein, a professor at UCLA, has been placed on leave after he refused to cancel a final exam following George Floyd's death

> 23/ David Shore, a 28-year-old data scientist, has been fired for tweeting an article by a biracial Princeton African-American studies scholar suggesting that rioting is politically counterproductive.

> 32/ Tiffany Riley, the headmistress of a high school in Windsor, Vermont, has been forced to take "administrative leave" after writing a Facebook post in which she said, “Just because I don’t walk around with a BLM sign should not mean I am a racist.”

> 37/ Emmanuel Cafferty, a Hispanic truck driver, has been fired after a fellow driver put a picture of his arm hanging out of his truck window on Twitter and claimed it was the white power symbol. A BLM protest was taking place nearby.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#898

Post by sireat »

ngold wrote: post #613
dmoy wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The_Donald involved a lot of spreading their message / fake news sites / spamming across other subs and etc. Yea, I gotta say, having to previously deal with r/The_Donald brigades on another large subreddit was incredibly annoying and depressing. Can't speak to spreading fake news, but massive influxes of r/The_Donald users spamming truly vile stuff in an ostensibly non-political sub really sucked (as a moderator,…

Gotta respect the iron fist of /r/askhistorians. Probably the best sub on reddit.

I respect the iron fist of /r/askhistorians but it has the feel of being impossible to contribute.

This is by design but horribly off putting even if you read all the rules.

It feels way worse than wikipedia or Stack Overflow inner circle.

For example a few years ago there was a question about Hitler underestimating Soviet tank production. I submitted a link to HistoryChannel Youtube audio of the famous Hitler-Mannerheim talk of June 4th of 1942. I included even the exact second where Hitler talks about Soviet tank production.

Well, my comment which was 3rd or 4th level down got [deleted]. Why did I even bother?

I had a lengthy discussion with the askhistorians moderator on what the problem was.

* It was not Hitler since the question was about him. * It was not the fact that this was about as close to primary source as possible. * The problem apparently was that I did not provide enough context. We are talking about providing a primary source in a comment 3 levels down.

This leads to a horrible ratio of questions/accepted answers.

You would think that with only few historians being able to navigate the requirements the answers would be of the highest quality.

When it comes to recent history it certainly does not feel like it.

Another example: There was a question on Soviet black markets in 1980s The sole accepted answer referenced one pitiful official Soviet source and that was it. It was a lazy answer.

Since all I had was a wealth of anecdata I could not contribute which was fine but the feeling of incomplete answer really nagged me.

So you end up feeling like https://xkcd.com/386/ but unable to do anything.

The problem is this, if the official r/askhistorians answer is so obviously(to a biased participant in a recent event) incomplete for recent history how can we trust askhistorians for history where you have no knowledge?

It leads to a form of Gell-Mann effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#899

Post by basch »

guerrilla wrote: post #864
basch wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iron fist is a double edged sword in some senses. Although reddit acted as a free speech haven for a long time, it was only overall, and not ever in major specific communities. True free speech is valued because it fosters debate, and allows bad speech to be rebutted by more speech. A marketplace of ideas, and maybe more importantly, the counterspeech doctrine, are incredibly important principals in justifying th…

> True free speech is valued because it fosters debate, and allows bad speech to be rebutted by more speech. A marketplace of ideas, and maybe more importantly, the counterspeech doctrine, are incredibly important principals in justifying the existence of free speech. No, you're missing the phenomenon of gish galloping[1]. Toxicity will overwhelm the community because it takes no effort to spew disgusting nonsense an…

I'm not arguing against moderation.

Half way down I said "Strong moderation is what allows communities with strict quality guidelines to function.". Quality could mean very different things to The_Donald and AskHistorians

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#900

Post by bitexploder »

sixteenyearold wrote: post #832
bitexploder wrote: post #777

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never created an account. As far as I know you don’t have to. I am very curious. I like to peek in and see where the most extreme Trump supporters are at these days. It’s not pleasant and I tolerate it in small doses only, but I think it is important to understand them, even if I strongly disagree. Edit: it’s currently going direct to a login screen. That’s not normal.

I made an account on thedonald.win today, just to try and understand what other people's opinions are. You don't need an email ID for signing up, so it's pretty easy. That being said, yes, quite a few people in the community are toxic. However, I don't see any activity that would cause them to be removed from Reddit altogether.

Keep lookin. There are plenty of occasions where there will be posts and memes with a lot of upvotes that have things that would get you banned from most any other site: calls to violence, outright support for white supremacy, etc. They are cleaning things up some lately, but it’s all still there. It’s abundantly clear to me, at least, why they got banned.
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