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Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

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Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#461

Post by mmcconnell1618 »

koheripbal wrote: post #161
crazygringo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is common. My grocery store, my bodega, my doctor's office, my dentist -- they all offer a 5% discount for paying in cash. Obviously not everyone does it, but it's certainly not uncommon. On the other hand, there are also a lot of costs associated with handling cash. The expense of tracking bills and coins and going to the bank every day is not insignificant. So it's pretty easy to argue that there's no reason f…

That's a little different. They offer discounts of 5% because they then don't report the income and don't pay taxes. The CC companies are only taking 2.5%-3.2%. If they're offering a 5% discount for cash - it's almost certainly tax evasion.

Also, chargebacks are a cost to merchants. In many cases, merchants will have money clawed back until they prove that the charge was not fraudulent. This requires keeping copies of receipts, signatures, etc. So, the true cost is far higher than just the transaction processing fees. Remember, the credit card companies make the rules and decide who gets to keep the money in a dispute. The merchants have to decide if they will accept credit cards because customers demand it or if they will go with cash only and lose out on potential sales.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#462

Post by tappio »

h91wka wrote: post #456
tappio wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's correct only in NA, where Klarna issues virtual credit cards and transactions happen via card tracks. In EU, or at least the Nordics, the transactions are bank-to-bank and there is no virtual card. That means they are a direct competitor.

In Sweden they issue regular credit cards (my friend has one). Also, AFAIK, in Nordics they offer virtual card payments to merchants who don't integrate with them directly.

Sure, they have plenty of collaboration with both major card schemas. AFAIK, they do both acquiring and issuing. I don't think collaboration means that you can't compete with each other? Their most successful products in the EU are not using card tracks.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#463

Post by bagacrap »

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #360
analyte123 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article (particularly the linked tweet) somewhat addresses your point: Amex and Discover may offer a superficial degree of competition for consumers , but banks have to obey Mastercard and Visa's rules even when it comes to offering bank accounts to merchants, otherwise they (and therefore all their other account holders) can't participate in the 80% of card transactions that are on the Mastercard and Visa networ…

I have seen many stories of legal and legitimate businesses for things like weed (legal in the stores location) and legal porn sites getting their merchant accounts shut down because the payment processors just don't want them to deal with it leaving cash as the only option.

Weed is still federally illegal in all locations in the US.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#464

Post by Aeolun »

hanche wrote: post #457
Symbiote wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Denmark, the majority of shops have little signs "Due to Covid-19, please pay by card or phone" or sometime "Due to Covid-19, cash is not accepted". On a recent trip to Germany, I didn't see a single such sign. Germany is changing gradually, perhaps due to the EU's limits on the fees Visa and MasterCard can change, but Covid-19 doesn't seem to have much effect.

In Norway, it is still illegal for stores to refuse cash. I know of only one store that does get away with it; I believe they do because they are primarily an online shop. Their physical store is merely a convenience for customers who happen to live nearby. Many (most?) stores still ask customers to pay with a card, though. To help out, the banks have raised the maximum amount payable by contactless cards without PIN…

I feel like this is probably a good thing. Cash payments are a very healthy thing to have in addition to digital payments.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#465

Post by monadic2 »

jariel wrote: post #44
ComputerGuru wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interchange fee pricing is set based on how much MasterCard charges the bank That’s not true though, or at least is a massive oversimplification. In the US, interchange fees are extremely inflated to allow banks to recuperate the rewards they give out to distinguish their card offerings from one another. The 2% cashback has to come from somewhere.

"The 2% cashback has to come from somewhere." Yes, but in reality, the program comes from an upside down approach to overcoming the obviously anti-competitive practices that VISA/MC use to forbid retailers from offering discounts for not using VISA etc.. You can't say "Get 2% if you use cash instead of VISA". (Notice that nobody ever advertises that?) Because VISA doesn't allow it. You also can't say "$1.99 + 20 cent…

I find it pretty nuts that the person who chooses the payment method doesn’t pay the charge. I always try to pay with cash if I can help it.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#466

Post by monadic2 »

adrr wrote: post #263
conductr wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small banks can integrate zelle, it’s their choice they’re not being locked out

0.75 per transaction locks out the small banks. It would be the most expensive way to transfer money.

Uhh my bank’s $30 to wire fee would beg to differ. Literally any fee less than that for a same-day transfer is worth it.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#467

Post by pirocks »

notyourwork wrote: post #135
komali2 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> financially literate is an individual responsibility. Is being able to read and write an "individual responsibility?" How about the ability to communicate in a language at all? What about any other basic core skill that would make a person capable of learning more things to make them "productive?" "Individual responsibility" as it pertains to these topics is at best a misnomer, if it even names an existent thing at…

I would encourage you to frame your disagreement with statements and facts. Asking questions expecting the reader to draw the same conclusion as you isn't a useful discussion mechanism. Especially when the reader doesn't agree with you.

Here are some facts: https://nces.ed.gov/naal/kf_demographics.asp#3 , about 14% of adults in the US in 2003 had little to no reading skills.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#468

Post by monadic2 »

conductr wrote: post #234
protomyth wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also seen a number of gas stations in ND that have a $10 minimum for cards. This also carried over to some grocery stores.

Small dollar transactions really need a better solution. Idk swipe rates, but something like 2.9% + $0.30 being a total transaction cost of 5.9% is just insane. Especially if you’re business is majority small transactions such as could be the case in a bodega or gas station.

Yes that was a very odd thing about moving to SF: people using credit cards on <$5 transactions and merchants actually allowing it.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#469

Post by swiley »

lima wrote: post #17
xfour wrote: post #3

While I agree with the sentiment, things have certainly opened up lately quite a bit with the mainstream-ization of the crypto currencies. One could conceivably avoid Visa / MC in a way that just wouldn't have been possible before. Visa / MC remind me a bit of Ticketmaster in that they've got parties on both sides defending them because of kickbacks. You charge the merchant the "interchange fee" plus some amount and…

> mainstream-ization of the crypto currencies And modern Tendermint[1]/Cosmos SDK-based chains or Solana are basically distributed databases, using consensus models similar to Raft, except with byzantine fault tolerance and Proof of Stake for leader selection. No mining, no forks, finality within seconds, large throughput. Pretty boring, actually, with little hype surrounding it - it just works, like a regular databa…

Does raft work when people are trying to attack it? My understanding of it in its normal application is fuzzy enough.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#470

Post by blacklion »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #339
crazygringo wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're forgetting the percentages are on top of a ~$0.30 flat fee (though obviously this varies). So if you buy a $2 Coke, it's not a $0.054 fee (2.7%), it's $0.354 (or a whopping 17.7%). Maybe my dentist evades a few taxes, I dunno. But people buy cheap things at the bodega, so it probably is closer to the actual fees.

If the merchant doesn't offer the same cash discount for debit cards, then it's tax evasion. Debit card fees are a few cents, and the only reason to offer a big discount for cash, but not debit cards, is to not have the transaction on paper and hence evade taxes.

How could I know are my card credit or debit from system's point of view? I have two cards in my bank, both are exactly same MC cards, embossed, and all (not some Maestro variation). One card is linked with my current account — I have real money at this account, my employer pays my salary by transfer to this account and such. I can not pay if thus account is depleted. Second card is linked with credit account, where I have some limit, and I need to pay off in 28 days after end of each month or I'll pay draconian interest. But cards are exactly the same, with very similar numbers. And I never had any problems with any if these cards, like one works and other doesn't. Is one of my cards debit and other is credit or they are credit both?
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