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India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

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Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#781

Post by La1n »

SllX wrote: post #594
ianleeclark wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are YouTube algorithms open? I don't really see a difference here. Nation state vs. private corporation is different on paper, but I don't see why. They're both going to react to material stimuli to increase their standings.

Nation states have military, intelligence, diplomacy and police corps. They reserve the power to stop, detain, arrest, jail, try, sentence, imprison, and kill. That’s why how we go about those things is a Big Deal, and why we have so many rules about who can go about it, how, under what circumstances, what the laws are that they’re enforcing, what the processes and procedures are for enforcement and how guilt is dete…

>Corporations as a rule, and there have been exceptions, but as a rule have none of those powers. Theoretically the worst crimes they’re going to commit are fraudulent in nature and crimes of negligence.

Not that clear cut. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#782

Post by Udik »

ciarannolan wrote: post #531
Udik wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange, because the question I asked and you didn't answer was pretty clear: "What values does the US share with the UK more than with most other western countries?". My point (implicit, but obvious) is that "values" is a weasel word used to justify power alliances under the pretension of some shared positive ethical trait. For the specific case, I feel that the UK and the US have very different values, as it's easy…

Thanks. I didn't answer because it common for people making a lowest common denominator comment to just pepper you with questions that never land on a final point. I think your point is interesting. What do you mean by "power alliances" in this context? Do you mean that they're mostly (or entirely) allied for their combined war making power? For my part, I think the relationship is based on a general understanding th…

Sorry, I know "power alliances" wasn't too clear, but it was just a way to stress that these are in effect temporary, shifting alliances between powerful organisations (such as nation states are).

> For my part, I think the relationship is based on a general understanding that their people are alike in custom, beliefs, traditions, geopolitical place, etc

Yes, and this is what I was sceptical about. Just to give a few examples, the UK society is extremely secularised, with more than 50% of the population declaring itself non religious; nobody thinks it's a right to carry firearms; police itself is mostly unarmed; politically, there's a strong labour party that is way to the left than the US political mainstream, a welfare state and universal social security and health care. The demographic composition is much more homogeneous than that of the US, with a large indigenous population and relatively recent immigration. There is a lot of value put on tradition, social classes and social order. There is a hereditary aristocracy that holds reserved seats in a branch of the parliament. Etc.

> After all, America is the troubled child of the UK

Yes, and they share a language. But the US is an entirely different place: a whole continent with deserts, mountain ranges, tropical beaches and freezing wilderness. A huge amount of space that for centuries has attracted immigrants from all over Europe and the world; the US culture is a mix of many conflicting cultures released in a colonial setting where conquering and settling was for centuries the way forward.

Imo, the relationship of the US with the UK is mostly sentimental, while that of the UK with the US is one of subalternity.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#783

Post by SllX »

La1n wrote: post #781
SllX wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nation states have military, intelligence, diplomacy and police corps. They reserve the power to stop, detain, arrest, jail, try, sentence, imprison, and kill. That’s why how we go about those things is a Big Deal, and why we have so many rules about who can go about it, how, under what circumstances, what the laws are that they’re enforcing, what the processes and procedures are for enforcement and how guilt is dete…

>Corporations as a rule, and there have been exceptions, but as a rule have none of those powers. Theoretically the worst crimes they’re going to commit are fraudulent in nature and crimes of negligence. Not that clear cut. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars

Gonna have to emphasize that bit where I said there are exceptions a bit louder then, but this isn’t one of them. That was an imperialist project prosecuted by United States Military under the direction of the United States civilian government.

I was thinking more about companies that have actually had militaries, the Dutch East India Company being a prime example.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#784

Post by blocked_again »

dis-sys wrote: post #773
est wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well technically China did it first. China banned tons of foreign apps or websites because "significant national securities threat"

foreign apps or websites? 99.9% of them are US apps and websites. you don't need to ban india apps in China as I've never heard any of them, you don't need to ban india website as the india infrastructure won't be able to serve requests from a country like China anyway.

Serving large number of requests is not an unsolved problem which only China has monopoly on. You just spin up more servers in the cloud as you get more and more users. Cloud platforms like AWS, Google Cloud and technologies like Kubernetes, Docker etc has made the job way too easy.

Anyway, India's hotstar holds the world record of maximum number of consecutive users watching a live stream.

https://gadgets.ndtv.com/entertainment/news/hotstar-world-re...

https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/12/hotstar-disneys-indian-str...

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#786

Post by franklampard »

buzzkillington wrote: post #643
franklampard wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western governments literally have a history of slavery. Right now, America is running actual concentration camps for African Americans. Don’t think western governments are any better.

>Don’t think western governments are any better. You are welcome to move to China if you think they are better. After all I moved to the West because I thought it was better.

Seriously not a bad idea. China doesn’t have millions of corona virus infections. And restaurant and bars are open.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#787

Post by unishark »

mav3rick wrote: post #752
unishark wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you are asking. Governors aren't selected by parliament or something. In every state in the US, Governors are elected by voting in elections, as are senators and representatives at every level. Those independent candidates won a plurality or possibly majority in the state elections. That's how they become governors. If an independent becomes governor, it means a plurality of people voted for them an…

Can you just acknowledge the fact that it's hard to have nuanced sides while standing as a candidate in America ? I don't know what you're going on about, even your president with his anti establishment rhetoric needed a nomination from 1 of the parties.

I'm chatting about the history of third-party and independent governors in the USA since someone asked. Then responding to follow-up questions that seemed to not understand the information I provided. As for your question, I'm not interested in getting into partisan or country-bashing nonsense. Not really interested in discussing the presidency either since it's such a toxic topic for the last generation. Try reddit.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#788

Post by vgchh »

With the recent killing of 20 Indian soldiers, conventionally India would’ve responded militarily. Though the reality is India can’t afford a military conflict with the much more powerful China. Thus banning the apps is a good response. You kill our 20 people and alter boundaries, we cut off your businesses from our markets at the very least.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#789

Post by hef19898 »

SllX wrote: post #672
liquidise wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But who draws the "human liberty" line? Where and how does "human liberty" and "individual liberty" intersect? Is the Non Aggression Principle the doctrine on this? Or something more progressive that helps ensure minority rights? Some other option entirely? Liberty and humanism are topics built on millennia of context and nuance. Blanket statements like yours, while passionate, risk being so reductionist that they di…

The idea of someone drawing lines is positivist bullshit. The Declaration of Independence was grounded on the bedrock of Natural law, and the bedrock of the Constitution was the common law. The context for both was American but the principles therein are Universal. Liberty is the natural order, but liberties can be tempered by morals and laws. If they existed not in nature, but as a set of approved rights granted to…

Well, slavery was abolished after the civil war some hundred years after the constitution. So much for human liberty.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#790

Post by Aerroon »

C4stor wrote: post #777
Aerroon wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in those other jurisdictions you don't have free speech. A woman in Austria was convicted of blasphemy for a factual statement, because it hurts the feelings of people following that religion. Apparently our European human rights that say they protect free speech don't protect free speech. Free speech as a strongly held value is incredible, because it avoids situations like the above (Austria). It also avoids sit…

The recent flux of videos of US policemen physically assaulting people making use of their free speech right tends to make me think it's not in fact "that important" in the US to be honest.

You're absolutely not wrong that this detracts from it. However, the courts in the US won't side with the policemen on this. They seem to be rather protective of the first amendment.

As an aside, police violence happens in the countries I mentioned. Not as much, but it does happen. Eg the yellow vest protests in France had a problem with this.

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