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Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

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Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#401

Post by tappio »

mrweasel wrote: post #394
tappio wrote: post #311

This is a very us centric view. Most of the europe is so much ahead of US in payments that it is funny. There are dozens of alternative payment methods in the Europe. Especially in the Nordics card payments are on a big decline. There are basically two "tracks" to move money - card networks and bank to bank. Most new payment methods use bank transfer as the method of moving money. In the Nordics, every country has a…

Just to clarify, the Danish mobile payment system (cleverly named: MobilePay) is based on debit cards, not bank to bank transfer. The system that was designed to do bank to bank, without the card systems being involved failed horribly. It was late to market and the launch has horrible mismanaged and covered in unnecessary secrecy. MobilePay had already launched and crabbed a large share of the market, the secrecy was…

Yes this is a good point! Same story with Finland.

It's interesting that it uses card tracks to move the money, but the identification and recipient is not based on card numbers, so the card stays anynomous for the recipient.

Mastercard and visa have recently been very open to this kind of methods, and also issuing virtual one-time-use cards. These new use cases for their network are quite healthy to the payments ecosystem.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#402

Post by smart_jackal »

dpacmittal wrote: post #109
crazygringo wrote: post #45

I don't get it -- Amex and Discover are still providing healthy competition, so the "duopoly" the author complains about seems to be largely irrelevant. Competition between cards is thriving and consumers benefit -- witness the miniscule transaction fee the credit card companies keep after paying your rewards back of 2% to 5%, when you pay your bill on time. The article's main point is that such large companies are a…

Amex and discover maybe popular in the US, but rest of the world still has a duopoly. I'd say 90%+ cards in India are visa/mastercard.

India also recently introduced RUPAY which is an alternative to VISA/MasterCard duopoly. Don't know about the success and usage of that though.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#404

Post by smart_jackal »

manquer wrote: post #84
briffle wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if companies charged 2-5% less because they didn't have to fund CC company marketing tools like cashbacks.

There are payment standards like UPI in India and mobile number based banking , which offer transactions for very less or no cost ( mostly debit driven )

UPI is great and so is NEFT, many other Asian countries are in talks to replicate these successful models in their own countries.

Also, India came up with RUPAY which is a great answer to VISA/MasterCard monopoly. But somehow it didn't catch up in usage I think.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#405

Post by ulzeraj »

eloisant wrote: post #382
jariel wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The 2% cashback has to come from somewhere." Yes, but in reality, the program comes from an upside down approach to overcoming the obviously anti-competitive practices that VISA/MC use to forbid retailers from offering discounts for not using VISA etc.. You can't say "Get 2% if you use cash instead of VISA". (Notice that nobody ever advertises that?) Because VISA doesn't allow it. You also can't say "$1.99 + 20 cent…

Interestingly, in Japan most electronic shops (like Bic Camera or Yodobashi Camera) have a point card where you get 5% not directly as cash back but as "points" that you can use any time for a further purchase. But that's only if you pay by cash, you don't get any point by paying by card.

Yodobashi offers a 5% discount if you pay with visa card. Combine that with the 8% tax free deduction if you hold a temporary tourist visa.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#406

Post by philwelch »

knorker wrote: post #395
philwelch wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure it varies but the US has a bunch of annoying regulations meant to curb money laundering. For instance, if you deposit $10,000 or more at the bank, you are required to fill out annoying paperwork to prove you aren’t laundering money. If you don’t want to fill out annoying paperwork so you only deposit $9,000 at a time, that is literally a federal felony. Maybe your city has a “safety of crowds” thing going on…

KYC (Know Your Customer) laws are not exactly unique to the US. The money industry tends to be heavily regulated, and self-regulated (PCI DSS) for a reason. Crime happens there because that's literally where the money is. I'm doing my part, though. I pay with cash whenever I can. In Germany that's easy (often the only option e.g. in restaurants). In Sweden, not so much. And then there are countries in between.

Yeah, I don’t know how other countries differ from the US in this respect. Maybe the “war on drugs” made us paranoid about money laundering to the point where it eventually ground down the cash economy. Or maybe it really is our addiction to consumer debt.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#407

Post by orthoxerox »

consp wrote: post #379
ipsum2 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you figure? Is it from counterfeit money, or cost to transport the cash?

Bringing cash to a bank either via deposit boxes or by collection is not free and coinage is even more expensive than paper. At least here in Europe

Yes, the fee for processing coinage and old notes is 50% in the bank I work for.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#408

Post by jariel »

badwolf wrote: post #138
jariel wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The 2% cashback has to come from somewhere." Yes, but in reality, the program comes from an upside down approach to overcoming the obviously anti-competitive practices that VISA/MC use to forbid retailers from offering discounts for not using VISA etc.. You can't say "Get 2% if you use cash instead of VISA". (Notice that nobody ever advertises that?) Because VISA doesn't allow it. You also can't say "$1.99 + 20 cent…

The vending machine in my Apartment bldg has a sticker saying that credit card price is $0.10 more than the stated price and to use cash/coin to get the stated price. The machine does not accept bills or coins.

I should add because I cannot edit my comment that some of these parameters have changed in the last few years, however, it various by jurisdiction. Also, the universal incumbency established by these players was deeply entrenched before such programs were relinquished.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#409

Post by GoblinSlayer »

an_opabinia wrote: post #167
jedberg wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the base rate comes from MC/Visa. Precessing credit cards is a low margin business. It's basically a race to see who can charge as close to the MC/Visa rates as possible.

This isn't really about Visa-MasterCard, it's about a darling like Stripe charging 2.95% because 3% is customary. People will freak about their customary rent/take being threatened. They gotta come out of the woodwork and justify the charge... somehow. A HN proxy battle!

They want to eat too.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#410

Post by easytiger »

ipsum2 wrote: post #368
dx034 wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, with interchange fees at 0.3% and total card fees <1% for many shops, it's actually cheaper for sellers to accept cards than cash.

How do you figure? Is it from counterfeit money, or cost to transport the cash?

Banks charge to deposit cash in business accounts
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