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China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

bbc.com

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Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#21

Post by [deleted] »

fuoqi wrote: post #16
arcticbull wrote: post #2

This is the death knell for Hong Kong and for One Country, Two Systems -- which has effectively been over in Macau for years. I can't help but wonder if things would have been different if the US had different leadership -- actually interested in furthering the cause of freedom and democracy throughout the world. While of course the UK is responsible for policing the handover agreement, it's been too busy staring dow…

It's ironic that the convoluted Hong Kong "democracy" system was directly created by British colonial administration. And this system is largely responsible for limiting ability of Hong Kong citizens to control political power in their city and thus resist mainland power grabs.

[deleted]

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#22

Post by bobthepanda »

fuoqi wrote: post #16
arcticbull wrote: post #2

This is the death knell for Hong Kong and for One Country, Two Systems -- which has effectively been over in Macau for years. I can't help but wonder if things would have been different if the US had different leadership -- actually interested in furthering the cause of freedom and democracy throughout the world. While of course the UK is responsible for policing the handover agreement, it's been too busy staring dow…

It's ironic that the convoluted Hong Kong "democracy" system was directly created by British colonial administration. And this system is largely responsible for limiting ability of Hong Kong citizens to control political power in their city and thus resist mainland power grabs.

This isn't true.

The Urban Council was the colonial British council that was completely elected by universal suffrage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_Council

The system today only came about because of the handover.

Also note:

> The People's Republic of China government did not agree with reforms to the Legislative Council enacted in 1994. Therefore, it withdrew the previous so-called "through-train" policy that would have meant that members elected to the colonial Legislative Council would automatically become members of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("HKSAR") legislature. Instead, the Chinese government resolved to set up an alternative legislative council in preparation for the return of the sovereignty of Hong Kong from Britain to China. This body, the Provisional Legislative Council, was established by the Preparatory Committee for the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR) under the National People's Congress of the People's Republic of China in 1996.[6] The Provisional Legislative Council, in operation from 25 January 1997 to 30 June 1998, initially held its meetings in Shenzhen until 30 June 1997.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislative_Council_of_Hong_Ko...

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#23

Post by Lio »

arcticbull wrote: post #7
PakG1 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> It'll be very interesting to see if the UK goes through with it's offer to provide a path to citizenship for 3 million HK'ers. Frankly, it's the least they could do. As far as I can tell, a lot of Brexit was driven by anti-foreigner anti-immigration sentiment due to how easy it was for non-skilled people from other countries to enter into the UK? If so, I think that although Britons might be emotionally fine with…

As far as I can tell, Brexit was largely driven by discontent around Polish migration. There's over a million Polish citizens in the UK. This is a pretty good read [1]. [1] https://www.humanityinaction.org/knowledge_detail/understand...

Poles are well thought of here. The meme of the hard working Polish builder is well known.

I think one Pro-brexit faction created disinformation around Romanian immigrants.

The other main brexit faction created a meme around “taking back control” from bureaucrats.

Neither is based on reality.

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#24

Post by almost_usual »

fuoqi wrote: post #16
arcticbull wrote: post #2

This is the death knell for Hong Kong and for One Country, Two Systems -- which has effectively been over in Macau for years. I can't help but wonder if things would have been different if the US had different leadership -- actually interested in furthering the cause of freedom and democracy throughout the world. While of course the UK is responsible for policing the handover agreement, it's been too busy staring dow…

It's ironic that the convoluted Hong Kong "democracy" system was directly created by British colonial administration. And this system is largely responsible for limiting ability of Hong Kong citizens to control political power in their city and thus resist mainland power grabs.

How about Hong Kong becomes autonomous Hong Kong and they decide what they want?

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#25

Post by c3zh »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #19
c3zh wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To down voters: please also leave your comment to tell others why you think I am wrong

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution

Thank you for responding. I'm getting tons of down votes, and you are the first to say something.

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#27

Post by arcticbull »

klipt wrote: post #17
arcticbull wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can tell, Brexit was largely driven by discontent around Polish migration. There's over a million Polish citizens in the UK. This is a pretty good read [1]. [1] https://www.humanityinaction.org/knowledge_detail/understand...

Somehow, the fact that Britain seceded from the EU over one million foreigners, makes me skeptical that they'll offer citizenship to three million foreigners.

Citizens of the commonwealth aren't foreigners in the UK (and can vote if resident -- a Canadian citizen resident in the UK can vote in UK elections), and of course, Hong Kong is ex-commonwealth so I think it's more nuanced than you're giving it credit for. The Crown was sovereign over Hong Kong for more than 150 years.

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#28

Post by arcticbull »

c3zh wrote: post #11
arcticbull wrote: post #2

This is the death knell for Hong Kong and for One Country, Two Systems -- which has effectively been over in Macau for years. I can't help but wonder if things would have been different if the US had different leadership -- actually interested in furthering the cause of freedom and democracy throughout the world. While of course the UK is responsible for policing the handover agreement, it's been too busy staring dow…

The thing is the protesters are not wanting One Country Two Systems, but Two countries. They are weaving US and UK flags when protesting, telling everyone that they are not Chinese. And the list goes on. I don't think either US or UK can tolerant things like this for more than a year. Update: I can't reply any more because Hacker News thinks I'm posting too much. So please let me thanks you all for replying here. And…

I can also speak to some of the negativity as you've asked for folks to chime in. The foreign banner waving you're seeing is a response to the perceived and actual loss of freedoms and autonomy guaranteed under Once Country, Two Systems for a minimum of the next 20 years. Beijing is failing to honor the commitments it made to the Hong Kong people, to the UK and to the international community in 1997. The Hong Kong people are as a result asking for assistance from their former colonial overlords and contractually-bound current protectors (the UK) and the "bastion of freedom" (the US).

I sincerely doubt that had Beijing given Hong Kong the autonomy it committed to, you'd be seeing this kind of action on their part.

It didn't need to be this way, but the CPC cannot tolerate anything that might be perceived as an attack on "national unity" (and I use quotes only because "national" as defined by the CPC extends into the sovereign land of a number of countries including (at least) Taiwan, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines and India).

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#29

Post by bad_user »

Lio wrote: post #23
arcticbull wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can tell, Brexit was largely driven by discontent around Polish migration. There's over a million Polish citizens in the UK. This is a pretty good read [1]. [1] https://www.humanityinaction.org/knowledge_detail/understand...

Poles are well thought of here. The meme of the hard working Polish builder is well known. I think one Pro-brexit faction created disinformation around Romanian immigrants. The other main brexit faction created a meme around “taking back control” from bureaucrats. Neither is based on reality.

Funny thing, but especially given the Covid situation and worries about crops, now they want those low skilled Poles, Romanians and Bulgarians back, fighting over them with Germany, Spain, Italy, etc.

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#30

Post by cambalache »

c3zh wrote: post #11
arcticbull wrote: post #2

This is the death knell for Hong Kong and for One Country, Two Systems -- which has effectively been over in Macau for years. I can't help but wonder if things would have been different if the US had different leadership -- actually interested in furthering the cause of freedom and democracy throughout the world. While of course the UK is responsible for policing the handover agreement, it's been too busy staring dow…

The thing is the protesters are not wanting One Country Two Systems, but Two countries. They are weaving US and UK flags when protesting, telling everyone that they are not Chinese. And the list goes on. I don't think either US or UK can tolerant things like this for more than a year. Update: I can't reply any more because Hacker News thinks I'm posting too much. So please let me thanks you all for replying here. And…

You are being downvoted just because the "zh" in your username. What you say it is actually true and I suppose it is the feeling of a majority of HongKongners, if those wishes are legal or feasible it is another discussion.
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