This is a very us centric view. Most of the europe is so much ahead of US in payments that it is funny. There are dozens of alternative payment methods in the Europe. Especially in the Nordics card payments are on a big decline. There are basically two "tracks" to move money - card networks and bank to bank. Most new payment methods use bank transfer as the method of moving money. In the Nordics, every country has a mobile payments system where your bank account is attached to your phone number, any anyone can issue a payment to your phone number and you receive it to your bank account. You can use this also in brick and mortar stores etc. Not to talk about all the bill-payment based companies like Klarna... And how about China? They don't use cards either, just look at Alipay.
Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly
311–320 of 547 posts
Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly
#312Earlier quoted context omitted.
If companies weren't allowed to offer predatory lending towards financially illiterate the problem you describe dissolves, this is actually much easier to implement than individual responsibility.
Ah yes, the old "let's block stupid (poor) people from accessing financial instruments for their own good" argument while at the same time having legal gambling.
predatory lending != lending.
Predatory lending generally refers to companies like payday loan companies and cash advance companies which feed off of forcing people to continuously borrow until they can't borrow any more.
Lending should absolutely be accessible to everyone in some way or another, especially in a world where a transmission failure can lead to a lost job if you can't afford to fix it right away.
Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly
#313Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the EU, interchange fees are capped at 0.2% of transaction value for debit cards, and 0.3% for credit cards. This has indeed meant that rewards and cashback credit cards have largely disappeared (with the exception of Amex, which operates outside the interchange system?). Rewards/cashback cards that do still exist are typically tied to specific retailers, with whom the issuing bank has cut their own deals.
> with the exception of Amex, which operates outside the interchange system? Right, but try using Amex in Europe. Outside of major international hotel chains, or where you can do your purchase online through Paypal, you may as well not bother asking if they accept it.
It’s accepted in a lot of places here in NL. I have a Dutch amex. Aldi, Jumbo, Hema, all accept it.
Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly
#314This is a very us centric view. Most of the europe is so much ahead of US in payments that it is funny. There are dozens of alternative payment methods in the Europe. Especially in the Nordics card payments are on a big decline. There are basically two "tracks" to move money - card networks and bank to bank. Most new payment methods use bank transfer as the method of moving money. In the Nordics, every country has a…
While it is true that we have more options, I do not agree that non credit card mobile payment options are a primary payment. These still lack a lot of usability improvement in comparison to the now widespread mobile credit cards supported by almost all banks too. So I still recognise visa and their support for Apple Pay helps maintain this power.
Heres to hoping that Apple Pay (and Android) will open up directly to banks or solutions such as Mobile Pay, which bridges to direct bank transfers for member banks and then utilise credit cards as a backup for unsupported banks.
Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly
#315This is a very us centric view. Most of the europe is so much ahead of US in payments that it is funny. There are dozens of alternative payment methods in the Europe. Especially in the Nordics card payments are on a big decline. There are basically two "tracks" to move money - card networks and bank to bank. Most new payment methods use bank transfer as the method of moving money. In the Nordics, every country has a…
Yes but concentrating that many things on your phone is not the solution. It causes different problems.
Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly
#316Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s also a fake one. As the other commenter said, the credit card system came about bec cash was very expensive to use for stores. They were passing along those costs to consumers, the fact that that’s now inverted by some stores (cash discounts) is only doable bec of the prevalence of credit cards. Stores need to accept cash regardless, so there’s still some minimal added costs to using cash, but even with the offe…
In the US you are a criminal if your business is dealing with large amount of cash everyday. That’s how credit card got the market share. Companies make the law so you will use their system. They dont profit if you use cash whywould they allow you to do that.
What are you referring to here? There are plenty of cash only businesses in my city and the owners aren't being thrown in jail for it.
Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly
#317Earlier quoted context omitted.
"The 2% cashback has to come from somewhere." Yes, but in reality, the program comes from an upside down approach to overcoming the obviously anti-competitive practices that VISA/MC use to forbid retailers from offering discounts for not using VISA etc.. You can't say "Get 2% if you use cash instead of VISA". (Notice that nobody ever advertises that?) Because VISA doesn't allow it. You also can't say "$1.99 + 20 cent…
> You can't say "Get 2% if you use cash instead of VISA". (Notice that nobody ever advertises that?) Because VISA doesn't allow it. > You also can't say "$1.99 + 20 cents processing charge" - no, the price must be listed including charges. (Notice that nobody every does this?) We see these a lot in Australia. I wish they'd enforce the same pricing here for cash and card — I don't like to carry cash around, and I hate…
Well, there is a cost when you use your card.
If there is no price differentiation, this just means everyone has to share the cost, rather than the people who choose to use it
Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly
#318Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't like to carry cash around, and I hate it that I have to pay a surcharge when paying by card. So you think your use of a credit card should be subsidized by people who pay in cash?
People who pay in cash are subsidizing the store’s costs to handle cash. Paying employees to count the cash (usually after closing), putting it in the safe, distributing the cash to cash registers, refilling when they run out of change, paying for the security service (Brinks etc) to deliver cash to/from the bank, insurance against robbery... Cash is not free for a store to handle. Stores pay transaction fees on cred…
Indeed. And if stores make their accounting and realize that cash handling costs more than credit card handling, they should be able to add a cash surcharge as well.
It just happens that they dont want to do that, because dealing with cash is cheaper
Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly
#319Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'll go one step further. This inequality is built into how humans work. Most of us would not extend credit to somebody with low odds of returning it, so why do should we expect companies and organizations to behave differently? I feel like wrapping this up as in the pretty words "systemic inequality" is framing it as some constructed oppressive structure, which I'm loathe to do.
Not extending credit to people who are likely to default: makes sense Denying a 2% discount to people who are likely to default: ???
Could argue that it "makes sense" in exactly the same way - when you offer the discount, you increase overall spend / demand, i.e. you increase the size of the loan, which is something that as the lender you would prefer to do toward people with better credit.
Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly
#320Let's tackle Google first then we will have a look at the other complaints. Not going to "forget" Google. Sorry.