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Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

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Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#301

Post by komali2 »

lucaspm98 wrote: post #214
komali2 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> financially literate is an individual responsibility. Is being able to read and write an "individual responsibility?" How about the ability to communicate in a language at all? What about any other basic core skill that would make a person capable of learning more things to make them "productive?" "Individual responsibility" as it pertains to these topics is at best a misnomer, if it even names an existent thing at…

Yes, I realize you’re not being genuine, but those are all your responsibility to do/learn. Although everything you mentioned is what you should learn as a child, so we have a moral/social code for parents and the community along with some help from schools to teach these basic principles. I could follow your argument if the card issuers weren’t transparent in their pricing and terms like payday loan companies. Howev…

I am being genuine.

I'm not sure the country has taken the necessary step up in early education to even have the population have a baseline understanding of what interest rate is. I didn't learn that anywhere in elementary, middle, or high school. I had to figure it out on my own.

I don't think that's acceptable. I think that leaves our population vulnerable to predatory companies, who have a disproportionate ability to lobby the government to allow them to stay predatory.

I envision a capitalist hellscape where the population is kept purposefully reapable.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#302

Post by efreak »

closeparen wrote: post #220
hamandcheese wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fees for debit transactions are much lower, though.

I know this is the case when actually doing a PIN debit transaction (e.g. not Visa or Mastercard), but do you have a source on Visa/MC debit transactions costing less? Neither Stripe [0] nor Paypal [1] mention that. [0] https://stripe.com/pricing#pricing-details [1] https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/merchant-fees

Stripe and PayPal aren't charging you on behalf of the credit card companies--they're making money off the transactions themselves. They're not going to charge you less for processing a debit card payment any more than they'll charge less for cheaper credit cards (using Visa instead of AmEx). Besides debit and credit transactions, there's also atm/direct transactions that cost even less (and likely have no fraud protection from your bank; the links I have posted below don't say much about this as it's not used often). Credit cards are also allowed to charge extra (though merchants rarely do around here, except at gas stations), but my understanding is that that's illegal with debit cards.

See here for info: https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/research/average-credit-card...

https://www.thebalance.com/debit-or-credit-315293

https://pocketsense.com/pinless-debit-card-rules-9651.html

https://consumer.sd.gov/fastfacts/credit.aspx

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#303

Post by prostoalex »

gruez wrote: post #157
ComputerGuru wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interchange fee pricing is set based on how much MasterCard charges the bank That’s not true though, or at least is a massive oversimplification. In the US, interchange fees are extremely inflated to allow banks to recuperate the rewards they give out to distinguish their card offerings from one another. The 2% cashback has to come from somewhere.

>In the US, interchange fees are extremely inflated to allow banks to recuperate the rewards they give out to distinguish their card offerings from one another. The 2% cashback has to come from somewhere. And that's a bad thing, because it's essentially the poor subsidizing the rich. People who aren't able to get credit cards (or the "good" cash back credit cards) tend to be worse off financially than people who do.

There are costs associated with accepting and securing cash as well.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#304

Post by jiggunjer »

daveoc64 wrote: post #212
jpkoning wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is good news on the competition front. The traditional problem with bank-to-bank transfers in a retail, or point-of-sale, setting has been speed. Cheque was about the fastest that could be mustered. But with developments like UK Faster Payments (which is mentioned in your link) bank-to-bank transfers are getting faster, in some cases instant. And so usability at the point-of-sale is now on par with cards. In Hol…

I can't really see bank transfers taking of at the point of sale in the UK. Making a payment with most banking apps is very clunky - especially for the first time with 2FA. As a consumer, a credit or debit card gives me a lot of protection. I wouldn't give that up for anything (oh, and the cashback I get too).

But I thought debit card = bank transfer? There is no protection?

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#305

Post by mc10 »

briandear wrote: post #253
rtpg wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crpyto isn't mainstreaming but you are having a mainstream-ization of non-CC digital payments. Venmo is the thing in the US, but China has Alipay/Wepay, SE asia has various digital payment apps, Japan has had a huge "cashless" push in the past 12 months.... If I were running a retail shop in the US I definitely would accept payment by Venmo if I could.

Apple Pay is the thing. And it makes peer to peer money moving simple while not violating privacy like Venmo. You can use Apple Cash or a payment card. It’s all pretty easy — and private. Venmo is a privacy nightmare. You can use Apple Pay without even having a debit or credit card.

Apple Pay doesn't solve anything on the merchant's side. There's just nothing in the US with the simplicity and affordability as the various payment apps in Asian countries.

For instance, in China WeChat Pay only charges 0.1% above 10,000 RMB (from what various articles say). Square is not even in the same category, charging 2.6% + 10¢. And you don't need to buy any equipment to use WeChat Pay; you just need to pull up a QR code on your phone.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#306

Post by vasco »

kneel wrote: post #177
notyourwork wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people didn't spend money they don't have the problem you describe dissolves. No one has to use credit cards and being financially literate is an individual responsibility.

If companies weren't allowed to offer predatory lending towards financially illiterate the problem you describe dissolves, this is actually much easier to implement than individual responsibility.

Ah yes, the old "let's block stupid (poor) people from accessing financial instruments for their own good" argument while at the same time having legal gambling.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#307

Post by osamagirl69 »

erostrate wrote: post #250

How come we haven't had big privacy scandals from Visa/ Mastercard? Big companies, a rent-like business, no pressure to do things well, own lots of very sensitive personal data, clients giving the data away without realizing it, little regulatory oversight on the data front, etc. I would expect them to sell or leak poorly anonymised personal data, leading to huge privacy issues. Why hasn't this happened?

Because they know they have a golden goose and are not willing to risk it all pushing boundaries like the FANG companies are. They also have literally 50 years of experience with their data mining and the only think more powerful that incompetence is 50 years of bureaucracy....

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#308

Post by [deleted] »

jariel wrote: post #44
ComputerGuru wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interchange fee pricing is set based on how much MasterCard charges the bank That’s not true though, or at least is a massive oversimplification. In the US, interchange fees are extremely inflated to allow banks to recuperate the rewards they give out to distinguish their card offerings from one another. The 2% cashback has to come from somewhere.

"The 2% cashback has to come from somewhere." Yes, but in reality, the program comes from an upside down approach to overcoming the obviously anti-competitive practices that VISA/MC use to forbid retailers from offering discounts for not using VISA etc.. You can't say "Get 2% if you use cash instead of VISA". (Notice that nobody ever advertises that?) Because VISA doesn't allow it. You also can't say "$1.99 + 20 cent…

[deleted]

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#309

Post by jerrysievert »

there's a Futurama gag about a 3rd option that's just as apropos as when it aired:

> Fry: $30? I can't afford that. Unless... Do you take Visa?

> Salesman: Visa hasn't existed for 500 years.

> Fry: American Express?

> Salesman: 600 years.

> Fry: Discover card?

> Salesman: Sorry we don't take Discover.

the good news is that Amex seems to have stepped up while partnering with Walmart for their BlueBird cards - while not perfect, at least helping to add more options. and with walmart in the mix it seems to help get a 3rd (Amex) option accepted more places.

maybe not the perfect solution, but at least a step in the right direction.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#310

Post by icelancer »

argonaut wrote: post #186
crazygringo wrote: post #45

I don't get it -- Amex and Discover are still providing healthy competition, so the "duopoly" the author complains about seems to be largely irrelevant. Competition between cards is thriving and consumers benefit -- witness the miniscule transaction fee the credit card companies keep after paying your rewards back of 2% to 5%, when you pay your bill on time. The article's main point is that such large companies are a…

I don't get it -- bringing up Amex and Discover is like bringing up Bing and DuckDuckGo when people talk about the Google monopoly.

Except Amex is the highest end card used predominantly by financially secure individuals. Bing is... not that.
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