Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 547 posts

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#91

Post by hawkice »

pradn wrote: post #72
crazygringo wrote: post #45

I don't get it -- Amex and Discover are still providing healthy competition, so the "duopoly" the author complains about seems to be largely irrelevant. Competition between cards is thriving and consumers benefit -- witness the miniscule transaction fee the credit card companies keep after paying your rewards back of 2% to 5%, when you pay your bill on time. The article's main point is that such large companies are a…

CC rewards seem like a indirect regressive tax. Wealthier consumers who can afford to pay on time and have better credit ratings are subsidized by poor consumers who actually use the "credit" part of "credit card".

It's not government. The same incentive structure for businesses matches better to loyalty cards.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#92

Post by PeterisP »

arachnid92 wrote: post #83
dathinab wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, also in many EU countries credit cards do matter much less. For example in Germany card payment is normally done with EC cards (girocard,vpay,etc), including NFC based payment. For long term recurring payments SEPA is common, for one time payments simple bank transactions over online banking. This includes online payment for services like Amazon. Oh an not to large local payments (e.g. restaurant) are also very…

I just want to present a counterpoint to your claim that in the EU, CCs matter less: there are countries in the EU like Sweden where cash is virtually non-existent. Basically everything is card-based here, I've even seen panhandlers who accept electronic payments in Stockholm.

Card != CC. The point is that in EU there's less motivation to use credit cards than in USA because the situation is better for payment cards that are not credit cards. If you refer to Sweden, I believe that the split there is that something like 40% of the cards are credit cards, and the majority are not.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#93

Post by digsy »

pradn wrote: post #72
crazygringo wrote: post #45

I don't get it -- Amex and Discover are still providing healthy competition, so the "duopoly" the author complains about seems to be largely irrelevant. Competition between cards is thriving and consumers benefit -- witness the miniscule transaction fee the credit card companies keep after paying your rewards back of 2% to 5%, when you pay your bill on time. The article's main point is that such large companies are a…

CC rewards seem like a indirect regressive tax. Wealthier consumers who can afford to pay on time and have better credit ratings are subsidized by poor consumers who actually use the "credit" part of "credit card".

Are they?

Visa/Mastercard charge merchants 1-2% interchange fees for each transaction.

I'd guess that people putting $20k a month on their Visa (I know a few that do) are paying for themselves with the interchange fees.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#94

Post by notyourwork »

pradn wrote: post #72
crazygringo wrote: post #45

I don't get it -- Amex and Discover are still providing healthy competition, so the "duopoly" the author complains about seems to be largely irrelevant. Competition between cards is thriving and consumers benefit -- witness the miniscule transaction fee the credit card companies keep after paying your rewards back of 2% to 5%, when you pay your bill on time. The article's main point is that such large companies are a…

CC rewards seem like a indirect regressive tax. Wealthier consumers who can afford to pay on time and have better credit ratings are subsidized by poor consumers who actually use the "credit" part of "credit card".

If people didn't spend money they don't have the problem you describe dissolves. No one has to use credit cards and being financially literate is an individual responsibility.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#95

Post by bluGill »

ryanwatkins wrote: post #53
xfour wrote: post #3

While I agree with the sentiment, things have certainly opened up lately quite a bit with the mainstream-ization of the crypto currencies. One could conceivably avoid Visa / MC in a way that just wouldn't have been possible before. Visa / MC remind me a bit of Ticketmaster in that they've got parties on both sides defending them because of kickbacks. You charge the merchant the "interchange fee" plus some amount and…

Merchants certainly "notice" and take any opportunity to use an alternative to the card networks. They only accept it because they must to avoid losing a purchase. They would rather customers pay in almost any other form due to interchange costs. When talking to big merchants about any new payment product, the first question you will hear is often "so, how does this lower my interchange cost?"

That might be true, but it isn't as obviously true as you would think. Credit cards payments are not subject to being stolen or lost. Once you have the approval the money will reach your account.

Of course there are other frauds you are vulnerable to. Which is why it isn't clear what is really best

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#97

Post by dimitrios1 »

notyourwork wrote: post #94
pradn wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CC rewards seem like a indirect regressive tax. Wealthier consumers who can afford to pay on time and have better credit ratings are subsidized by poor consumers who actually use the "credit" part of "credit card".

If people didn't spend money they don't have the problem you describe dissolves. No one has to use credit cards and being financially literate is an individual responsibility.

You mean to tell me all my woes in life aren't some form or another someone else's fault?

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#98

Post by ummonk »

crazygringo wrote: post #45

I don't get it -- Amex and Discover are still providing healthy competition, so the "duopoly" the author complains about seems to be largely irrelevant. Competition between cards is thriving and consumers benefit -- witness the miniscule transaction fee the credit card companies keep after paying your rewards back of 2% to 5%, when you pay your bill on time. The article's main point is that such large companies are a…

The competition between credit card issuers is healthy. It's the payment processor side that isn't (though micropayments seem poised to disrupt the space).

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#99

Post by thalesmello »

pradn wrote: post #72
crazygringo wrote: post #45

I don't get it -- Amex and Discover are still providing healthy competition, so the "duopoly" the author complains about seems to be largely irrelevant. Competition between cards is thriving and consumers benefit -- witness the miniscule transaction fee the credit card companies keep after paying your rewards back of 2% to 5%, when you pay your bill on time. The article's main point is that such large companies are a…

CC rewards seem like a indirect regressive tax. Wealthier consumers who can afford to pay on time and have better credit ratings are subsidized by poor consumers who actually use the "credit" part of "credit card".

There's a bit of misunderstanding in your statement. Most of the money made by companies in payments systems comes from transaction fees, not from interest. When companies offer you better rewards, that's them competing to have you use their credit card rather than the competition's.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#100

Post by systemvoltage »

omosubi wrote: post #90
alt_f4 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not though. No one is forcing you or anyone else to sign up for credit cards - it's a choice, unlike taxation.

How would you pay for things online, many of which are not available in person? Or stores/airplanes/services that don't accept cash?

Debit cards? The other option is to use a Credit Card but pay off at the end of the month. Why is that so difficult? That’s literally like a Debit card except for the additional “buffer” of safety and security from your bank account.
Post reply on HN