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India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

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Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#551

Post by TulliusCicero »

baddox wrote: post #448
TulliusCicero wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying free trade ought to be reciprocal. If one side is gaming the system by blocking foreign competitors while competing in those foreign markets, then that side should in turn be blocked until they're willing to change their tune. China can be allowed to compete in other markets when they allow others to compete in their market.

Then the outcome is that a country can claim to support free trade while deliberately not supporting free trade, since "it's the other countries' fault."

No, they can't. If the US were to ban Chinese apps, and then China relented and allowed in American apps, and then the US kept the ban, that would make the hypocrisy clear.

You could even made it explicit in the law, similar to what the EU is doing for travel reciprocity now that the coronavirus situation isn't as bad: have the text of the law explicitly say that the ban automatically lifts if the other country cooperates.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#552

Post by chrischen »

foepys wrote: post #169
chrischen wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The China censors things so we should too stance just seems to strengthen their position of censorship...

Quite the opposite. China (the country, not China the economy) is investing billions into developing tech companies to surveil their citizens. Those apps are all centrally controlled by the Chinese government. They can freely suppress discussions without you ever knowing. Hell, they don't even need to censor it but only need to make it less discoverable. As soon as those apps reach the western hemisphere (or just any…

What do you think the ad networks and social networks are all already doing? Reddit just deleted a whole subreddit... (which ultimately moved to its own website).

At some point it's not really about censorship or freedom of speech anymore... and more about not letting the other guys win.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#553

Post by dsabanin »

xmprt wrote: post #309
stickfigure wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are not even remotely equivalent things. Advertisers are not a homogeneous block. YouTube et al can afford to piss off some advertisers; if they're pissing off all advertisers, the material is probably extremely objectionable to most humans. I challenge you to point out an example of content that has been banned from youtube because it offends advertisers, that you really think the banning of which is a signifi…

YouTube's algorithm suppresses LGBTQ content more than usual which is something that most people agree shouldn't be suppressed. At the same time, I don't think it's because advertisers want to suppress the content. I just think it's a bug with YouTube's algorithm.

Could it be that it’s just not as popular as one might think?

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#554

Post by stevens32 »

krn wrote: post #360

A reddit user, who claims to have reverse-engineered the TikTok app[1], concluded: > TikTok is a data collection service that is thinly-veiled as a social network. If there is an API to get information on you, your contacts, or your device... well, they're using it. > For what it's worth I've reversed the Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter apps. They don't collect anywhere near the same amount of data that TikT…

> The scariest part of all of this is that much of the logging they're doing is remotely configurable

How is this scary at all - much less the "scariest part"? The vast majority of the bullet points also seem standard and not worth paying attention to. I also read the Penetrum paper he linked which was similarly unconvincing.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#555

Post by Tiltowait-- »

HenryBemis wrote: post #512
xmprt wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube's algorithm suppresses LGBTQ content more than usual which is something that most people agree shouldn't be suppressed. At the same time, I don't think it's because advertisers want to suppress the content. I just think it's a bug with YouTube's algorithm.

> YouTube's algorithm suppresses LGBTQ content more than usual Similar story with Tumblr. I had been using Tumblr for a good many years, for non-pornographic use/material (I shoot landscapes and buildings, and I liked the way I could post/group my photos). It pissed me off though when they (Tumblr) clamped down on sexual content, because it really hurt the LGBTQIA+ communities. A similar clamp down on Pinterest also…

Since when did conservatives use Tumblr?

Same reason as Facebook: advertisers don't want their ads shown next to controversial content. As a matter of fact, the LGBTQIA+ communities aren't all about sex, and it's homophobic to say they are.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#556

Post by TulliusCicero »

ngold wrote: post #144
TulliusCicero wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see a problem with targeting Chinese-made apps, given how much China blocks from other countries. Free trade has to work both ways.

I don't see a problem with banning Spyware regardless of the country of origin.

Sure, but I'm not just talking about spyware. China bans lots of 'Western' apps and services that aren't spyware; Wikipedia is an obvious example.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#557

Post by seebetter »

ianleeclark wrote: post #57
saltedonion wrote: post #42

India is absolutely right in banning TikTok as it is a significant national securities threat. As long as the platforms recommendation and ranking algos are a black box, there is no guarantee that China isn’t conducting misinformation campaigns via the platform. At the very least, the government should audit the algos and make sure China can’t arbitrarily alter ranking results.

Are YouTube algorithms open? I don't really see a difference here. Nation state vs. private corporation is different on paper, but I don't see why. They're both going to react to material stimuli to increase their standings.

The Chinese State is based on Marxism-Leninism and wants to dominate the world. There is a difference in that and any other country that acknowledges natural rights. If you believe rights are innate, then you can’t openly tolerate a state that denies them.

I often think what would California look like if it had the laws of Texas. Or what would China look like if it had the structure and motivations of Nevada? Both have Elon Musk and gambling.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#558

Post by alasdair_ »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #527
ianleeclark wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's actually pointing out the statement I quoted is fundamentally wrong. Private corporations can and have done the same things you accused state actors of doing

So it's a difference in degree, not kind. My point stands. I'm far more concerned about an organization that has imprisoned thousands with essentially zero consequences than one that hired some paramilitaries and got in significant legal trouble for it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Fruit_Company

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#559

Post by chinesempire »

verdverm wrote: post #544
chinesempire wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has a lot to do with what kind of criminal lobby is in charge As European I prefer Chinese communists to American warlords that can't stop selling guns to everyone If you think about it, the "greatest democracy of the World" has homicide rates worse than Nigeria and Congo and is engaged in more wars than any other country. Can an US citizen really criticize other countries for being fascist? p.s. the data is good

If europe sides with China, they will eventually be cutoff like what is happening with China. It will take a couple of decades and I don't see it turning around to go back at this point. The question for Europeans will be which market they prefer to do business in. Are you so sure you prefer your current choices? Does your country have memories from Stalin and Lenin? That's the type of communism you are getting with…

[flagged]

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#560

Post by siculars »

ianleeclark wrote: post #161
saltedonion wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a good point. But TikTok is much more risky, and as as such requires much more scrutiny given existing body of knowledge between how chinese social media / chat companies such as WeChat enforce government censorship and aid in propagating misinformation. This might be a shock to most people in the western world, but if you go on almost ANY news website in china, the headline news is dedicated to government p…

> The reality is that Chinese firms and government operates together intimately No, I get this, but here's the thing: YouTube and, more specifically, it's advertisers do everything that you're accusing China of. There are material consequences if YouTube doesn't keep in line. What this means is that a status quo that pleases advertisers will be maintained. It's every bit propaganda as dropping leaflets, but you can't…

Here's the thing, all those corporations you suggest are pulling strings and controlling things do not have a nuclear arsenal or national state security operations. There are material consequences if you do not toe the Chinese party line. As in you can pay for that with your freedom or your life.
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