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India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

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Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#511

Post by RobertoG »

gruez wrote: post #450
RobertoG wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, I still remember how, in a poll before the invasion of Iraq, a majority of Americans though that Saddam Hussein was connected to the 11S attacks.

What are you trying to say here? That the DoD somehow was able to pressure the US media into supporting the Iraq war? Funny how they were able to do that, but wasn't able to get the "MSM" to get off Trump's back during his term.

Actually, from my readings I have the perception that the DoD was against the invasion of Iraq. But some elites decided that Iraq was going to be invaded and invaded it was.

Now somebody has decided that China is very bad, and here we are discussing how bad they are. Despise that in 1989 they massacred their population literally in the center of their capital, a few years later and until recently the investment in China grow exponentially. But, they are starting to be too powerful, so, they are not funny anymore. Now, we have to block their mobile apps.

What happened to Saudi Arabia by the way? Why are not the independent media talking about the relationship with them in the same way they talk about Iran?

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#512

Post by HenryBemis »

xmprt wrote: post #309
stickfigure wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are not even remotely equivalent things. Advertisers are not a homogeneous block. YouTube et al can afford to piss off some advertisers; if they're pissing off all advertisers, the material is probably extremely objectionable to most humans. I challenge you to point out an example of content that has been banned from youtube because it offends advertisers, that you really think the banning of which is a signifi…

YouTube's algorithm suppresses LGBTQ content more than usual which is something that most people agree shouldn't be suppressed. At the same time, I don't think it's because advertisers want to suppress the content. I just think it's a bug with YouTube's algorithm.

> YouTube's algorithm suppresses LGBTQ content more than usual

Similar story with Tumblr. I had been using Tumblr for a good many years, for non-pornographic use/material (I shoot landscapes and buildings, and I liked the way I could post/group my photos). It pissed me off though when they (Tumblr) clamped down on sexual content, because it really hurt the LGBTQIA+ communities. A similar clamp down on Pinterest also made me drop them equally fast.

I don't know what conservative agenda they took on, but there were other ways to "protect the sensitive eyes" of their conservative users, without shutting down freedom of expression.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#513

Post by Udik »

ciarannolan wrote: post #506
Udik wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You entirely missed my point: I'm not questioning the existence of a "special relationship", I'm asking if it's based on "values". What values does the US share with the UK more than with most other western countries?

I don't think there was really a point to be missed. If you have a point, go ahead and make it.

Strange, because the question I asked and you didn't answer was pretty clear: "What values does the US share with the UK more than with most other western countries?".

My point (implicit, but obvious) is that "values" is a weasel word used to justify power alliances under the pretension of some shared positive ethical trait.

For the specific case, I feel that the UK and the US have very different values, as it's easy to see comparing the society and recent history of the two countries.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#514

Post by im3w1l »

gruez wrote: post #435
im3w1l wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All American companies move in lockstep. We see one company after another pull out of facebook advertising very quickly last week. They work together as a group with a consistent goal. This week we saw one social media platform after another ban the same people. The North American cartel moves together as one, once again. You can host your own videos but if you do expect to be banned by paypal and mastercard and visa…

>All American companies move in lockstep. We see one company after another pull out of facebook advertising very quickly last week. They work together as a group with a consistent goal. Sounds like they're moving in lockstep in response to public sentiment. Is that a bad thing?

If American public sentiment wants my country destroyed, then it's a bad thing for my country. Today they don't but who knows about tomorrow? Extremists are taking over and the situation is unfolding in very unpredictable ways.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#515

Post by ex3ndr »

saltedonion wrote: post #42

India is absolutely right in banning TikTok as it is a significant national securities threat. As long as the platforms recommendation and ranking algos are a black box, there is no guarantee that China isn’t conducting misinformation campaigns via the platform. At the very least, the government should audit the algos and make sure China can’t arbitrarily alter ranking results.

I bet this is just a corrupted ban for promoting local app of friends of friends of some minister.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#516

Post by ardy42 »

ianleeclark wrote: post #161
saltedonion wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a good point. But TikTok is much more risky, and as as such requires much more scrutiny given existing body of knowledge between how chinese social media / chat companies such as WeChat enforce government censorship and aid in propagating misinformation. This might be a shock to most people in the western world, but if you go on almost ANY news website in china, the headline news is dedicated to government p…

> The reality is that Chinese firms and government operates together intimately No, I get this, but here's the thing: YouTube and, more specifically, it's advertisers do everything that you're accusing China of. There are material consequences if YouTube doesn't keep in line. What this means is that a status quo that pleases advertisers will be maintained. It's every bit propaganda as dropping leaflets, but you can't…

>> This might be a shock to most people in the western world, but if you go on almost ANY news website in china, the headline news is dedicated to government propaganda.

>> The reality is that Chinese firms and government operates together intimately. Nearly all sizable firms have a party secretary that is involved in board level decisions, and steps in when things get political. You can ponder who has the final say.

> No, I get this, but here's the thing: YouTube and, more specifically, it's advertisers do everything that you're accusing China of. There are material consequences if YouTube doesn't keep in line. What this means is that a status quo that pleases advertisers will be maintained.

You're basically saying: "YouTube has to please group X, TikTok has please group Y. Since they both have to 'please groups,' they're doing the same things!" That's a flawed comparison, because the the devil is in the details: the relevant differences between group X (YouTube advertisers) and Group Y (the Communist Party of China) get obscured when you're reasoning about such high level abstractions.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#517

Post by cmonnow »

Ghjklov wrote: post #501
cmonnow wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> paradox of tolerance Unnecessary use of the 'paradox' label. If a criminal shoots a cop, that is violence. If a cop shoots the criminal back, is that the 'paradox of violence' ? If a surgeon cuts open a patient with a knife, to treat a tumor, is that the 'paradox of violence' ? Violence used to curb violence is peace. Peace used to ignore violence is violence. There is nothing 'paradoxical' about not tolerating the…

You had me until here: >Violence used to curb violence is peace. Peace used to ignore violence is violence. So an eye for an eye, eh? And if I use my eye to look away, I also deserve to lose it? I think you are a dangerous fellow. I'd sooner allow someone to say some mean things on the internet than let someone like you ever get into a position of power.

> So an eye for an eye, eh?

So if a criminal is shooting at you (violence), the police should not shoot the criminal (also violence)?

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#518

Post by cmonnow »

class4behavior wrote: post #510
cmonnow wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> paradox of tolerance Unnecessary use of the 'paradox' label. If a criminal shoots a cop, that is violence. If a cop shoots the criminal back, is that the 'paradox of violence' ? If a surgeon cuts open a patient with a knife, to treat a tumor, is that the 'paradox of violence' ? Violence used to curb violence is peace. Peace used to ignore violence is violence. There is nothing 'paradoxical' about not tolerating the…

>Unnecessary use of the 'paradox' label. No, it is not. You just didn't read up what the paradox is—or what a paradox is for that matter.

Tolerating the intolerant, or intolerating the intolerant - that's not a paradox.

It's no different from the police using violence on violent people.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#519

Post by shripadk »

mateus1 wrote: post #500
shripadk wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not. US invading Iraq and Afghanistan was not to expand its territories. You can argue that the invasion was based on false information that Iraq had WMDs or Afghanistan harbored Taliban (which in turn sheltered Osama bin Laden) or you could say that the invasion was to topple dictatorial regimes or you could say that US invaded these countries for oil. Whatever explanation you give it doesn't amount to expansi…

This is bonkers and absolutely doublethink. I guess you Americans are not familiar with ideologies like the Big Stick Policy and Manifest Destiny. (coined 1845).

I am not an American. I am an Indian. Stop assuming stuff.

And who better to know about expansionism than Indians? We have been colonized multiple times in the past. We know the exact difference between expansion and invasion. An invasion can turn into colonization if the oppressing party annexes territory and sets up a Government of its own against the interests of the people. US hasn't annexed Afghanistan and Iraq. No matter how much you try to paint it that way it isn't the case.

Manifest Destiny is a cultural thing in the United States. It is not official State policy. The term was itself coined by a journalist (John L Sullivan).

We have a similar cultural quote in India called "Akhand Bharat" where we wish to go back to the time where Bharat was one territory and not divided into Pakistan, India and Bangladesh. Doesn't mean we go around conquering neighboring Nations. It is not our official State Policy. But we have definitely had multiple Wars with our neighbors. We have even invaded Pakistan multiple times: Once in 1965 when our Army marched all the way to Lahore and in 1971 when we invaded East Pakistan and liberated it from its oppressive dictatorial armed forces creating Bangladesh in the process. In neither of these cases did we annex territories. We had all the opportunities to do so! We did not.

Every big power has something similar to the "Manifest Destiny". China has one too. It is its Silk Road project called the BRI (Belt and Road Initiative). Except that others aren't actually acting on it and expanding their territories. China is!

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#520

Post by mateus1 »

mthoms wrote: post #466
learnstats2 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As long as the platforms recommendation and ranking algos are a black box All platforms recommendation and ranking algos are ultimately a black box. Why is TikTok special here?

TikTok is controlled by an authoritarian dictatorship engaged in a war against Western/Democratic values and human rights.

Many around of the world see the US also an authoritarian state with little regard for human rights.
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