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Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

blog.anylist.com

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Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#101

Post by Smoosh »

TheArcane wrote: post #76

> Another issue is Sign in with Apple’s “Hide My Email” feature. With this feature, if you create an account with us, Apple will generate a special email address just for that account. So rather than your email address being john.doe@icloud.com, we will see your email address as something like dpdcnf87nu@privaterelay.appleid.com. Ironically, this is also why I use Sign Up with Apple at every opportunity I can

The article also implies that if anyone can guess your email address, they can send you/share with you a list. I wonder what anti-spam measures AnyList implements?

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#102

Post by swagonomixxx »

renewiltord wrote: post #88
TheArcane wrote: post #76

> Another issue is Sign in with Apple’s “Hide My Email” feature. With this feature, if you create an account with us, Apple will generate a special email address just for that account. So rather than your email address being john.doe@icloud.com, we will see your email address as something like dpdcnf87nu@privaterelay.appleid.com. Ironically, this is also why I use Sign Up with Apple at every opportunity I can

How is this ironic? It is by design and obviously they know why people do it because the very next sentence says that. Why on Earth would you'd want to use a list-sharing app that uses email as the addressing system and then not share your email.

The anonymous e-mail that Sign-In with Apple generates forwards to the e-mail used to set up your Apple ID. So it's not like it's a random e-mail that acts as a /dev/null.

This is by far the biggest selling point of Sign-In with Apple for me and I will continue to use it, and continue to not use apps that don't support it. I have plenty of e-mail aliases, but having an alias auto-generated for you is very convenient, and not having to generate a secure password is also very convenient.

The day AnyList gets hacked (not saying it will - but it's highly likely, the way security has taken a backseat due to "features") then at least my personal e-mail and password won't be there for every hacker on Earth to see and try to spam passwords to get into all of my other accounts.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#103

Post by judge2020 »

stickfigure wrote: post #30
djrogers wrote: post #4

This makes perfect sense from their standpoint - especially since they've had similar problems to what they outline with Facebook sign-in and are now dropping that as well. This is also a win for Apple & end-user privacy, as there's one less app using FB's login feature now. I think Sign in with Apple is a great step forward even if all it does is eliminate apps that require Facebook and/or Google accounts to log in.…

For my last two companies (both B2B), I implemented login via Google accounts only. Google login has a number of advantages: 1) Identity is an email address. If I wanted to rip out Google, or Google kicked me off the platform, all I need to do is add passwords and put a "forgot my password" link and my customers continue business as usual. 2) It's not a google-specific email address. You can create Google accounts fo…

point 3 is only true for G Suite customers - if someone is on O365 and signs up for Google normally with their company account, they can access that email after their company turns off access to the email unless they also specifically reset the Google password.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#105

Post by WorldMaker »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #92

> Furthermore, if there are platforms where AnyList doesn’t support Sign in with Apple, like Android, and someone wants to log into their account, they’d have to know their privaterelay.appleid.com email address. (And that certainly won’t be easy to find if you no longer have an iOS device.) And then they’d have to create a password with us, since they wouldn’t be able to sign in using Sign in with Apple. I’m an avid…

Sign-In with Apple is a (mostly) standard OpenID Connect provider that works everywhere (and works just like sign in with FB, Google, et al from a technical implementation), including the Web and Android. It's an interesting miscommunication or misunderstanding (and I was not surprised to see it in this article) that applications and developers think the "Sign in with Apple" button should only show up on Apple devices. It should show up on the web and in Android apps, Apple only requires it on Apple devices because that's the only devices that they control.

I wish Apple communicated that better and/or developers better understood that Sign in with Apple really is a FB/Google/social login button like all of the others and should be supported everywhere, not just Apple devices.

(I'm in the iOS/Windows dual mode user team myself these days and find that I trust Sign-In with Apple, but I've definitely had to already email developers to request that they add the Sign-In with Apple button to websites and explain why they would/should.)

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#106

Post by buboard »

czzr wrote: post #5

Buries the lede. They’ve chosen to drop support for Facebook login rather than also support Apple login. So working as intended!

aren't they going to be asking for the real email though?

email remains the best and free-est login identifier. Most people who are not complete internet plebs have a second email for things they dont trust.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#107

Post by scarface74 »

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #93
crispyporkbites wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should Apple be allowed to dictate if an app asks for an email address? They should not become the defacto law makers of our society

That ship sailed long ago. Apple basically has apps and app-developers by the balls, not to mention the 30% extortion money they try to get not just for app purchases but any transaction done within the app, so much as even banning an app from telling the user that they can do the transaction elsewhere. It makes my blood boil but from the discussions I see on HN about it, most people here seem to be more or less ok w…

It’s not any transaction. It’s any digital transaction. You can sell physical goods and services either without giving Apple any cut, or by using Apple Pay and Apple just gets your standard credit card processing fee.

Does Walmart let you sell your product in their store and say you can look at it there but get it cheaper from Amazon?

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#108

Post by floatingatoll »

Apple's developer docs on the Private Email Relay Service are relevant to those evaluating the technicals of AnyList's position. Three specific highlights from that doc are relevant when considering AnyList's objections:

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/sign_in_with_apple...

After the user has shared a private relay email address with your app, they can find, view, and manage it in their account settings at Settings > Apple ID > Password & Security > Apps Using Your Apple ID.

The relay server transforms your email address so it’s readable to the user. For example, sales@xyz.com may become sales_at_xyz_com_@privaterelay.appleid.com instead of a random email address. Replies from the user are still routed back through the service to preserve the user’s privacy.

To send emails to users with private email addresses, you must register your outbound emails or email domains and use Sender Policy Framework (SPF) to authenticate your outbound emails.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#109

Post by ehsankia »

elondaits wrote: post #26
no_wizard wrote: post #12

A lot of the points they make here are real points, and I think AnyList has validity in their actions. I also think it’s not as unmanageable as it seems. Let’s analyze this quote, from the article, as it highlights what I imagine are a big crux of this issue: > with the “Hide My Email” option, your spouse or friends obviously won’t know your privaterelay.appleid.com email address, so when they enter your email addres…

In a perfect world people would share things with you without entering your private email address in other people's systems. I don't want to be in the database of whatever app or system my friends decided to join, nor I want to receive spam from these companies. Many of the objections come from wanting to do things the old way, without privacy and responsible handling of private data.

> Many of the objections come from wanting to do things the old way, without privacy and responsible handling of private data.

No, they come from the fact that privacy comes at a cost. In this case, it's much harder to receive support, find your account if you lose it, and get proper communication. Everything is a trade off, and anyone who thinks the reason things have been done this way is only to scoop up as much data as possible is either brainwashed or naive. These changes are adding a whole new layer of complexity, which may be worth it in some cases, but in others it just is a net negative for the customer.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#110

Post by scarface74 »

lifty wrote: post #42
philistine wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo ! This is Apple’s really hard bargain here. Implement us or get rid of all the other garbage sign-in.

I love it. With password managers becoming better and by owning your domain, it almost feels like a self-sovereign identity system. It would be great if services would implement better support for browser form auto-fill, and ask the minimum amount of information during signup. That way it would be very little hassle to signup for a service.

And Apple has integration points with third party password managers.
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