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Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

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Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#81

Post by mikeryan »

goliatone wrote: post #80
mikeryan wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to be fascinated to see what this does for conversions. My company built the Neil Young Archives, when doing so we initially launched with Social log ins and at one point Neil decided Facebook and Google were evil and wanted to remove the access. According to our logs a full 2/3s of all users were registering with a social account and we were having great success getting folks to log into a free service (We…

This escenario seems an clear candidate for A/B testing since I would be conflicted by wanting to provide privacy but understanding it might impact user signups. Seeing some actual numbers would help me in making that decision.

I don't disagree with you and it was proposed. However we didn't have A/B infrastructure in place then and on a project that may never make money it just wasn't a high enough priority to justify the spend.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#82

Post by WiseWeasel »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #67

I found it jarring that Apple would present themselves as the vanguard defenders of privacy by announcing what is basically an email relay service. Most privacy-conscious people wouldn't exactly think of their emails going through Apple as any particular win in privacy. And even for the "general user" I find the argument very weak, since it doesn't look as being any easier than using any other email relay, and there…

How is it anything but a win to have an additional easy option to use a more trusted relay rather than not? Many people have never heard of a relay, and wouldn’t understand its benefit if the option wasn’t presented to them like this.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#83

Post by alerighi »

djrogers wrote: post #4

This makes perfect sense from their standpoint - especially since they've had similar problems to what they outline with Facebook sign-in and are now dropping that as well. This is also a win for Apple & end-user privacy, as there's one less app using FB's login feature now. I think Sign in with Apple is a great step forward even if all it does is eliminate apps that require Facebook and/or Google accounts to log in.…

I mean it can be better for privacy if you think about Google/Facebook loging. But it will prevent adding all third party login services, potentially even ones that are more privacy respecting than Apple.

Also there are cases where a "sign in with " is the only option that makes sense because you really want to integrate with the API of this provider. Take for example a "sign in with GitHub". Or in case of services correlated, take for example Instagram where you obviously can sign up with a Facebook account.

I'm more for letting the developer choose what it prefers for authenticating the user and not having a authentication system that gets imposed by Apple.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#84

Post by olliej »

Um, it doesn’t forward to their iCloud email address, it forwards to the email they use for their iCloud login - eg the primary gmail or whatever address.

Users have the option to provide their personal email address, but given the track record of these being sold it’s reasonable to expect users to not trust you.

You can email them correspondence because as above that goes to their primary email.

What you lose is the value of the email address as an asset.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#85

Post by Avamander »

dilap wrote: post #11
Avamander wrote: post #9

They will get removed. They don't have the power to fight Apple.

No, they're fine -- if your only login is first-party, you don't need to support Sign in with Apple. (They're taking out FB login to comply.)

For now. I don't have much hope that it will remain like that.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#86

Post by Karunamon »

muro wrote: post #25
dilap wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they're fine -- if your only login is first-party, you don't need to support Sign in with Apple. (They're taking out FB login to comply.)

I do wonder, though, whether the requirement for Sign in with Apple is coming in a few years. As in, if you allow users to sign in with email/password, you must allow users to sign in with "sign in with apple". It might be more subtle, like suggested auto-fill to create a new account.

That sounds like a bridge too far even by Apple standards. I can get on board with "if you support Facebook, you have to support us as well", but not allowing any kind of escape hatch feels particularly scummy. At some point it's none of Apple's business how people sign up with my service.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#87

Post by lolsal »

stickfigure wrote: post #30
djrogers wrote: post #4

This makes perfect sense from their standpoint - especially since they've had similar problems to what they outline with Facebook sign-in and are now dropping that as well. This is also a win for Apple & end-user privacy, as there's one less app using FB's login feature now. I think Sign in with Apple is a great step forward even if all it does is eliminate apps that require Facebook and/or Google accounts to log in.…

For my last two companies (both B2B), I implemented login via Google accounts only. Google login has a number of advantages: 1) Identity is an email address. If I wanted to rip out Google, or Google kicked me off the platform, all I need to do is add passwords and put a "forgot my password" link and my customers continue business as usual. 2) It's not a google-specific email address. You can create Google accounts fo…

Can you educate me on what you mean by Google accounts only? I thought Google auth was just OAuth.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#88

Post by renewiltord »

TheArcane wrote: post #76

> Another issue is Sign in with Apple’s “Hide My Email” feature. With this feature, if you create an account with us, Apple will generate a special email address just for that account. So rather than your email address being john.doe@icloud.com, we will see your email address as something like dpdcnf87nu@privaterelay.appleid.com. Ironically, this is also why I use Sign Up with Apple at every opportunity I can

How is this ironic? It is by design and obviously they know why people do it because the very next sentence says that. Why on Earth would you'd want to use a list-sharing app that uses email as the addressing system and then not share your email.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#89

Post by goliatone »

mikeryan wrote: post #81
goliatone wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This escenario seems an clear candidate for A/B testing since I would be conflicted by wanting to provide privacy but understanding it might impact user signups. Seeing some actual numbers would help me in making that decision.

I don't disagree with you and it was proposed. However we didn't have A/B infrastructure in place then and on a project that may never make money it just wasn't a high enough priority to justify the spend.

Fair enough, sometimes you have to make a decision with what you have. A/B testing adds complexity and specially when doing contract/agency work you don’t have either the time nor the budget to pull it off. Been there myself.

Personally I would have considered to hack something on my own time just out of curiosity :D

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