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Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

blog.anylist.com

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Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#31

Post by panopticon »

muro wrote: post #18
djrogers wrote: post #4

This makes perfect sense from their standpoint - especially since they've had similar problems to what they outline with Facebook sign-in and are now dropping that as well. This is also a win for Apple & end-user privacy, as there's one less app using FB's login feature now. I think Sign in with Apple is a great step forward even if all it does is eliminate apps that require Facebook and/or Google accounts to log in.…

I've never seen an app that required a FB or Google login. It was always possible to use email+password.

CalTopo[0] doesn't support email+password. It's one of the few websites I use that doesn't support it, but an unfortunate number of mobile apps don't either.

[0]: https://caltopo.com/map.html

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#32

Post by ssalka »

danudey wrote: post #14
no_wizard wrote: post #12

A lot of the points they make here are real points, and I think AnyList has validity in their actions. I also think it’s not as unmanageable as it seems. Let’s analyze this quote, from the article, as it highlights what I imagine are a big crux of this issue: > with the “Hide My Email” option, your spouse or friends obviously won’t know your privaterelay.appleid.com email address, so when they enter your email addres…

> Since you know this to be the case, why not have an onboard if flow they Sign In with Apple where you have them A) choose a visibility email used for sharing/communication etc. and B) allow for this email to be their backup email? So if they forget their login or whatever you could just transfer the account to this email instead? I'm fairly certain that detecting someone hiding their e-mail from you and then making…

> making them pick a different e-mail

I think it's more about _letting_ them pick a different email. While I can understand that AnyList (or any other app for that matter) would want to, on occasion, send marketing emails to users, I don't think any app would, in their right mind, _require_ the user to provide a 2nd email address.

But by allowing them to optionally give that 2nd address, they can provide a path forwards with people being able to use Sign In With Apple (of course, that means some users may opt out of marketing emails entirely by refusing to provide a 2nd address).

This does probably go against the spirit of the feature, but if it actually is against Apple's rules to be doing this (anyone know the answer to this?), then it would definitely veer on the side of user hostility on Apple's part, since I would expect many apps to be taking a stance similar to the one taken by AnyList here.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#33

Post by nikisweeting »

muro wrote: post #18
djrogers wrote: post #4

This makes perfect sense from their standpoint - especially since they've had similar problems to what they outline with Facebook sign-in and are now dropping that as well. This is also a win for Apple & end-user privacy, as there's one less app using FB's login feature now. I think Sign in with Apple is a great step forward even if all it does is eliminate apps that require Facebook and/or Google accounts to log in.…

I've never seen an app that required a FB or Google login. It was always possible to use email+password.

https://tailscale.com/ requires it, as do many other apps that explicitly "don't want to become identity providers and would rather offload that burden to someone else".

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#34

Post by [deleted] »

muro wrote: post #18
djrogers wrote: post #4

This makes perfect sense from their standpoint - especially since they've had similar problems to what they outline with Facebook sign-in and are now dropping that as well. This is also a win for Apple & end-user privacy, as there's one less app using FB's login feature now. I think Sign in with Apple is a great step forward even if all it does is eliminate apps that require Facebook and/or Google accounts to log in.…

I've never seen an app that required a FB or Google login. It was always possible to use email+password.

[deleted]

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#35

Post by guessmyname »

czzr wrote: post #5

Buries the lede. They’ve chosen to drop support for Facebook login rather than also support Apple login. So working as intended!

Either the changes are only for the mobile app or they forgot to remove Facebook Sign In in the web [1][2].

[1] https://www.anylist.com/auth/sign-in

[2] https://i.imgur.com/3uC0E9G.png

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#36

Post by ianmobbs »

nicky0 wrote: post #24
danudey wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's good that you read Hey's blog post and are repeating it here, but it's not very accurate in this case. Specifically, if you implement Sign In with Apple, then they are still your customers as much as ever, they just might choose to hide their information from you because they don't trust you, which means that the power in the relationship is transferred to the user instead of the app developer.

Except that in many cases the email address is an obfuscated one controlled by apple, so Apple really is a gatekeeper between the user and the service.

No more so than Gmail/Yahoo Mail/etc is for the average end user

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#37

Post by blendergeek »

danudey wrote: post #17
stickfigure wrote: post #8

If you implement Sign In With Apple, you don't have a relationship with your customers anymore. They're Apple's customers, and Apple can take them away at any time.

It's good that you read Hey's blog post and are repeating it here, but it's not very accurate in this case. Specifically, if you implement Sign In with Apple, then they are still your customers as much as ever, they just might choose to hide their information from you because they don't trust you, which means that the power in the relationship is transferred to the user instead of the app developer.

> "Apple reserves the right to disable Sign in with Apple on a website or app for any reason at any time."

I think GP is absolutely right here. Apple can take the customers at any time for any reason. Apple could ban you from using Sign in with Apple simply because Tim Cook doesn't like what food you eat for breakfast. So, I have to agree with GP that these are Apple's customers at this point.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#38

Post by no_wizard »

bberenberg wrote: post #23
no_wizard wrote: post #12

A lot of the points they make here are real points, and I think AnyList has validity in their actions. I also think it’s not as unmanageable as it seems. Let’s analyze this quote, from the article, as it highlights what I imagine are a big crux of this issue: > with the “Hide My Email” option, your spouse or friends obviously won’t know your privaterelay.appleid.com email address, so when they enter your email addres…

Do you know if this is allowed within the scope of Sign In with Apple policies? A company I work with is implementing Sign In with Apple and said they can't do this. Not sure if they're right or if this is their weird interpretation.

I couldn’t find anything in an admittedly shallow search of the requirements or documentation.

Of course another alternative here is they just make users aware of what their sharing email is and allow users to optionally change that, if they want to.

I think their perfectly valid to do what they’re doing but I also don’t buy into this being an overly complicated logistical hurdle either

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#39

Post by frogpelt »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #20
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is a pretty anti-competitive move on Apple's part. They're essentially using their control of the iOS ecosystem to benefit unrelated products. I seem to remember that those kinds of actions didn't work out well for Microsoft :)

Apple takes many anti-competitive and consumer-hostile actions. They can freely get away with it, though, as they aren't a monopoly.

Also, they will argue that they are doing it for privacy and security reasons which are benefits to users.

But I don't know how much a judge would care about that.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#40

Post by jzzskijj »

muro wrote: post #18
djrogers wrote: post #4

This makes perfect sense from their standpoint - especially since they've had similar problems to what they outline with Facebook sign-in and are now dropping that as well. This is also a win for Apple & end-user privacy, as there's one less app using FB's login feature now. I think Sign in with Apple is a great step forward even if all it does is eliminate apps that require Facebook and/or Google accounts to log in.…

I've never seen an app that required a FB or Google login. It was always possible to use email+password.

Pokemon Go's account own doesn't work. Even if you manage to create that account, it won't log you in. With Google account it works as expected. I tried to create two Pokemon Go accounts, gave up and created a Pokemon Go only Google account for child's playing. It has worked a few years.
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