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India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

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Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#381

Post by pvelagal »

jankassens wrote: post #91
ianleeclark wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are YouTube algorithms open? I don't really see a difference here. Nation state vs. private corporation is different on paper, but I don't see why. They're both going to react to material stimuli to increase their standings.

If India (or any other country for that matter) would be in an armed conflict with the US, they would probably also consider banning various US controlled services.

China is not in armed conflict with US , why does it ban every app that civilized world uses ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma...

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#382

Post by matsemann »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #168
saltedonion wrote: post #42

India is absolutely right in banning TikTok as it is a significant national securities threat. As long as the platforms recommendation and ranking algos are a black box, there is no guarantee that China isn’t conducting misinformation campaigns via the platform. At the very least, the government should audit the algos and make sure China can’t arbitrarily alter ranking results.

Yeah, when I saw my neece on TikTok I was feeling really bad. Most people don't see it, but I hate it to realize that she's being slowly influenced by hidden propaganda :(

Have you seen what people share on facebook? The toxicity on twitter? The conspiracies on youtube?

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#383

Post by minusSeven »

hatenberg wrote: post #145
kumarvvr wrote: post #100

This is a right move, in my view. Chinese infiltration takes a myriad of forms and data collection is one of the biggest. And those apps form a basis for click-of-the-button hacking. And ordinary users will find it very very difficult to determine if an app is Chinese made or not. And the Chinese govt. will have it's fingers in everyone of them, one way or the other. What I do worry now is that since China has been e…

You'll see the same attitude to the US from the rest of the world too

In a democratic country there are steps you can take against the company. With China everything is a black box. There are explicit rules that forbid you from taking any action against them. China itself has banned tiktok in their country.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#384

Post by product50 »

xster wrote: post #162
mathnmusic wrote: post #80

I think this sort of response was inevitable and will be seen in more and more nations. China bans most of the popular websites and apps (including Wikipedia). The most recent trigger was the border standoff between India and China where Indian citizens could see and read both governments' responses, but Chinese citizens were only told Chinese govt's talking points. This seems like yet another instance of the paradox…

Though if you apply your argument with rigor and reciprocity was in play, more countries should ban american social media which censors geopolitical rivals https://thegrayzone.com/2020/01/12/us-pressure-social-media-...

America will literally fuck with you if you start doing this at scale. India can ban Chinese app since India can do this. China needed to understand this before escalating the border tensions with India.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#385

Post by ianleeclark »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #372
ianleeclark wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> State actors can effectuate arrests within their own territory, deploy military assets, make territorial claims, conduct assassinations, and generally use their information-gathering and influence to support significantly more violent goals. Coca cola sent death squads into South America. > That's not nearly as worrying as being influenced to hating racial minorities in an attempt to distract from the South China S…

> Coca cola sent death squads into South America. That's an argument against Coca Cola doing business in South America, not against banning an advertising platform in South America.

No, it's actually pointing out the statement I quoted is fundamentally wrong. Private corporations can and have done the same things you accused state actors of doing

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#386

Post by lern_too_spel »

ravingraven wrote: post #364
dathinab wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. But YouTube is not controlled by an authoritarian fascist-like government which has a world view in direct opposition to what you could refer handwaveingly as "western" and is currently pushing to become the dominant power in the world. If you furthermore consider how bad the "western world" (mainly Britten and the East India Company) had treated it in the past, some aspects of the Chinese culture and the…

This is a joke. The "western world" created PRISM and Five Eyes and has been meddling in elections in the third world for almost a century. Additionally, what do you define as the "western world", because by some measures it includes some actually fascist governments like e.g. Saudi Arabia. A) Having democracy does not correlate with having transparency and freedom, this has been de facto proven. B) If the "western w…

> The "western world" created PRISM and Five Eyes

What do you think PRISM and Five Eyes are? It is my experience that people who bring them up as huge evils have no idea what they are. They typically think that PRISM allows the NSA to read anybody's email (as opposed to being an ingestion system for data collected by the FBI) and that Five Eyes allows governments to indirectly spy on their own citizens, both of which are ridiculous ideas that are legally impossible.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#387

Post by pvelagal »

learnstats2 wrote: post #326
saltedonion wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a good point. But TikTok is much more risky, and as as such requires much more scrutiny given existing body of knowledge between how chinese social media / chat companies such as WeChat enforce government censorship and aid in propagating misinformation. This might be a shock to most people in the western world, but if you go on almost ANY news website in china, the headline news is dedicated to government p…

Why should India ban a Chinese social media company and not an US social media company, it's a matter of national security? This claim is just xenophobic nonsense.

China bans every app ? Xenophobic nonsense ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma...

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#388

Post by lern_too_spel »

numpad0 wrote: post #351
dathinab wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. But YouTube is not controlled by an authoritarian fascist-like government which has a world view in direct opposition to what you could refer handwaveingly as "western" and is currently pushing to become the dominant power in the world. If you furthermore consider how bad the "western world" (mainly Britten and the East India Company) had treated it in the past, some aspects of the Chinese culture and the…

Since you mention East India Company, what makes YouTube different from them?

For one, YouTube does not have a private army.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#389

Post by dathinab »

colordrops wrote: post #336
dathinab wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. But YouTube is not controlled by an authoritarian fascist-like government which has a world view in direct opposition to what you could refer handwaveingly as "western" and is currently pushing to become the dominant power in the world. If you furthermore consider how bad the "western world" (mainly Britten and the East India Company) had treated it in the past, some aspects of the Chinese culture and the…

YouTube isn't controlled by an authoritarian fascist-like government - it is run by the fascist-lite corporate oligarchy which runs the US. The US may not be as bad as china in some ways but that doesn't absolve them from responsibility.

Maybe, but on the surface a lot of moralic values seem to somewhat align.

Also I wouldn't say that YouToube is controlled by an " fascist-lite corporate oligarchy". It something different then fascism, maybe even worse.

It's also off topic in that TikTok being banned doesn't mean YoutToube is better or shouldn't be banned. India just didn't have to fear a militaristic invasion of the US corporate oligarchy...

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#390

Post by kanox »

mathnmusic wrote: post #80

I think this sort of response was inevitable and will be seen in more and more nations. China bans most of the popular websites and apps (including Wikipedia). The most recent trigger was the border standoff between India and China where Indian citizens could see and read both governments' responses, but Chinese citizens were only told Chinese govt's talking points. This seems like yet another instance of the paradox…

How is "tolerance" relevant to banning apps based on national origin?

This is nothing but good old fashion economic escalation.

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