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India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

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Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#331

Post by lala26in »

ianleeclark wrote: post #57
saltedonion wrote: post #42

India is absolutely right in banning TikTok as it is a significant national securities threat. As long as the platforms recommendation and ranking algos are a black box, there is no guarantee that China isn’t conducting misinformation campaigns via the platform. At the very least, the government should audit the algos and make sure China can’t arbitrarily alter ranking results.

Are YouTube algorithms open? I don't really see a difference here. Nation state vs. private corporation is different on paper, but I don't see why. They're both going to react to material stimuli to increase their standings.

3/5 board of directors of ByteDance that owns TikTok are western.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#332

Post by puranjay »

swatkat wrote: post #313
puranjay wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, US is not about expansionism I love how the world paints China as an aggressive power while conveniently forgetting the completely unjustified and unwarranted invasion of Iraq by America. From a neutral POV, China has only 'invaded' some islands. America has toppled governments and literally occupied sovereign nations - all under the guise of "national security". And it all happened in the distant past of…

>> From a neutral POV, China has only 'invaded' some islands. You should read about China's antics in African countries. https://qz.com/on/china-in-africa/

Remind me when they drop bombs on an African country's capital and hang its leader, all on a false charge of possessing WMDs.

I see absolutely no way that any American can ethically justify the invasion of Iraq.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#333

Post by em500 »

dmix wrote: post #287
phoe-krk wrote: post #280

Clash of Kings? That online game? Why?

Clash of Kings is owned by a Chinese company called Elex-Tech aka "Beijing ELEX Technology Co". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Kings Not to be confused with the more popular "Clash of Clans" which is owned by a Finnish company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Clans

That Finnish company is now owned by a Chinese company.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#334

Post by djrogers »

learnstats2 wrote: post #326
saltedonion wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a good point. But TikTok is much more risky, and as as such requires much more scrutiny given existing body of knowledge between how chinese social media / chat companies such as WeChat enforce government censorship and aid in propagating misinformation. This might be a shock to most people in the western world, but if you go on almost ANY news website in china, the headline news is dedicated to government p…

Why should India ban a Chinese social media company and not an US social media company, it's a matter of national security? This claim is just xenophobic nonsense.

One is a private corporation in a relatively progressive and free country, the other is a company controlled by an authoritarian nation-state. There's clearly a difference...

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#336

Post by colordrops »

dathinab wrote: post #320
ianleeclark wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are YouTube algorithms open? I don't really see a difference here. Nation state vs. private corporation is different on paper, but I don't see why. They're both going to react to material stimuli to increase their standings.

Good point. But YouTube is not controlled by an authoritarian fascist-like government which has a world view in direct opposition to what you could refer handwaveingly as "western" and is currently pushing to become the dominant power in the world. If you furthermore consider how bad the "western world" (mainly Britten and the East India Company) had treated it in the past, some aspects of the Chinese culture and the…

YouTube isn't controlled by an authoritarian fascist-like government - it is run by the fascist-lite corporate oligarchy which runs the US. The US may not be as bad as china in some ways but that doesn't absolve them from responsibility.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#337

Post by ianleeclark »

pyuser583 wrote: post #235
ianleeclark wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reality is that Chinese firms and government operates together intimately No, I get this, but here's the thing: YouTube and, more specifically, it's advertisers do everything that you're accusing China of. There are material consequences if YouTube doesn't keep in line. What this means is that a status quo that pleases advertisers will be maintained. It's every bit propaganda as dropping leaflets, but you can't…

The concern is the coordination between Chinese foreign affairs/security services and the commercial sector. For US-based firms, that’s simply not the case. Yes, YouTube needs to make sure Nike is happy. But Nike didn’t just kill two dozen Indian soldiers. Certainly there’s privacy related concerns with US companies - as with Chinese companies. But nobody had accused the DoD of manipulating YouTube search rankings. I…

> Yes, YouTube needs to make sure Nike is happy. But Nike didn’t just kill two dozen Indian soldiers.

Probably not the best company to choose given their history.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#338

Post by ianleeclark »

foobiekr wrote: post #306
Veen wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's one difference: the CCP is a totalitarian dictatorship that exerts direct control over Chinese corporations. Youtube, flawed as it is, is not that.

This. Why must every single posting on Hacker News that involves China be flooded with whataboutism? It's a recurring thing, not even subtle.

Whataboutism is a cowardly refusal to look inwards.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#339

Post by [deleted] »

puranjay wrote: post #332
swatkat wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> From a neutral POV, China has only 'invaded' some islands. You should read about China's antics in African countries. https://qz.com/on/china-in-africa/

Remind me when they drop bombs on an African country's capital and hang its leader, all on a false charge of possessing WMDs. I see absolutely no way that any American can ethically justify the invasion of Iraq.

[deleted]

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#340

Post by petre »

azinman2 wrote: post #122
ianleeclark wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's just opportunism, then? Condemn the other; refuse reflection. Or am I misunderstanding you?

I can’t say what India’s motivation is for sure. Maybe there’s a credible threat in a way that Facebook isn’t. Maybe it’s just anti-Chinese fervor. But saying anything outside of India should be treated the same is not taking into account geo-politics and individual country’s behaviors.

We live in interesting times, ripe for manipulation and propaganda, both if which China and Russia have spread in the EU during the last months. India's ban is completely warranted. The fact that they also have a border dispute with China only makes things worse. I'd rather they ban a few apps than escalation and war.
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