India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps • Hacker News Board

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#161

Post by ianleeclark » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 7:02 PM UTC

saltedonion wrote: post #116

ianleeclark wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are YouTube algorithms open? I don't really see a difference here. Nation state vs. private corporation is different on paper, but I don't see why. They're both going to react to material stimuli to increase their standings.

You have a good point. But TikTok is much more risky, and as as such requires much more scrutiny given existing body of knowledge between how chinese social media / chat companies such as WeChat enforce government censorship and aid in propagating misinformation. This might be a shock to most people in the western world, but if you go on almost ANY news website in china, the headline news is dedicated to government p…

> The reality is that Chinese firms and government operates together intimately

No, I get this, but here's the thing: YouTube and, more specifically, it's advertisers do everything that you're accusing China of. There are material consequences if YouTube doesn't keep in line. What this means is that a status quo that pleases advertisers will be maintained.

It's every bit propaganda as dropping leaflets, but you can't point out a boogeyman pulling the strings.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#162

Post by xster » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 7:02 PM UTC

mathnmusic wrote: post #80

I think this sort of response was inevitable and will be seen in more and more nations. China bans most of the popular websites and apps (including Wikipedia). The most recent trigger was the border standoff between India and China where Indian citizens could see and read both governments' responses, but Chinese citizens were only told Chinese govt's talking points. This seems like yet another instance of the paradox…

Though if you apply your argument with rigor and reciprocity was in play, more countries should ban american social media which censors geopolitical rivals

https://thegrayzone.com/2020/01/12/us-pressure-social-media-...

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#163

Post by searchableguy » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 7:02 PM UTC

koopuluri wrote: post #127

I'm curious how this will affect the local startup scene. There's definitely a great demand for these products that now needs to be fulfilled by local / non-Chinese international players. If this ban lasts: My concern is that Facebook will introduce India-specific products to fill this void, while my hope is that local players significantly up their product quality and reach to build a strong domestic tech scene - th…

What do you think the local market needs right now?

Can you give some example?

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#164

Post by seesawtron » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 7:02 PM UTC

I am not sure when and how this ban will take into effect because right now it is still available for download in playstore. So it seems to be more of a strategic move in response to the border issues.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#165

Post by shaan1 » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 7:02 PM UTC

I think this is a good move. With China banning apps from other countries, its right for India to do. We should be doing the same thing in the US

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#166

Post by ppeetteerr » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 7:03 PM UTC

Nasrudith wrote: post #132

ppeetteerr wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some countries, people trust their government to do the right thing. If the people in power believe that an app is a security risk, they ban it.

Then people are fucking morons. There are no two ways about it - abusable power will be abused. Hell "security risk" as a rationale is a vague layer to shield from criticism of policies. Since it is implicitly the magical special pleading wand known as "national security".

You might think so, but I would point to the fact that the US democracy is being attacked via social means from Russia, and possibly other governments. Then you have municipal governments having their networks locked down by ransomware from foreign agents. Not to forget how many acts of espionage take place through our internet. Might not be a bad idea to limit the amount of foreign access to local data.

My examples are not apps, but a threat is a thread.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#167

Post by JungleGymSam » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 7:04 PM UTC

moscovium wrote: post #139

saltedonion wrote: post #42

India is absolutely right in banning TikTok as it is a significant national securities threat. As long as the platforms recommendation and ranking algos are a black box, there is no guarantee that China isn’t conducting misinformation campaigns via the platform. At the very least, the government should audit the algos and make sure China can’t arbitrarily alter ranking results.

China bad

Yes. That's a given.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#168

Post by NicoJuicy » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 7:04 PM UTC

saltedonion wrote: post #42

India is absolutely right in banning TikTok as it is a significant national securities threat. As long as the platforms recommendation and ranking algos are a black box, there is no guarantee that China isn’t conducting misinformation campaigns via the platform. At the very least, the government should audit the algos and make sure China can’t arbitrarily alter ranking results.

Yeah, when I saw my neece on TikTok I was feeling really bad.

Most people don't see it, but I hate it to realize that she's being slowly influenced by hidden propaganda :(

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#169

Post by foepys » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 7:05 PM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #130

mathnmusic wrote: post #80

I think this sort of response was inevitable and will be seen in more and more nations. China bans most of the popular websites and apps (including Wikipedia). The most recent trigger was the border standoff between India and China where Indian citizens could see and read both governments' responses, but Chinese citizens were only told Chinese govt's talking points. This seems like yet another instance of the paradox…

The China censors things so we should too stance just seems to strengthen their position of censorship...

Quite the opposite. China (the country, not China the economy) is investing billions into developing tech companies to surveil their citizens. Those apps are all centrally controlled by the Chinese government. They can freely suppress discussions without you ever knowing. Hell, they don't even need to censor it but only need to make it less discoverable.

As soon as those apps reach the western hemisphere (or just anything outside China) and become dominant communication mediums, the Chinese government will be able to dictate opinion in the West.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#170

Post by decon2 » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 7:05 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #65

u801e wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> India is democratic and hold values closer to our own. Especially in terms of mixing religion and politics and right-wing based supremacy views.

This aside, the societal dynamics at large are remarkably, surprisingly similar.

Spontaneous protests around Floyd's killing are different from the anti CAA protestors. All the protest leaders (students) are in jail and accused of terrorism. Dissent is suppressed. How can the two societies be similar?