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India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

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Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#111

Post by mytailorisrich »

seshagiric wrote: post #99
mytailorisrich wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Covid-19 is biting extremely hard in India. Handling has been very poor so far. Stroking nationalism and pointing at foreign enemies in hard times is a tried and tested tactic.

That's not true in this case. There is continued aggression by China, infringing into India borders. It would be stupid of Indian govt. not to react.

Exactly what I'm saying. A tried and tested tactic that works well. And in fact I think China is playing a similar game, and the Chinese public buys it in the same way.

But it is a dangerous game because it can get out of hands. I think both sides know it and they don't want things to escalate. We need to see how the pandemic develops and hits both countries and their economies. I'm more worried about the Indian side at the moment because the pandemic situation seems out of hands and deteriorating fast there.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#112

Post by claudeganon »

chrisco255 wrote: post #66
claudeganon wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India is controlled by a fascist, ethnonationalist party that has encouraged pogroms toward Muslims and enshrined racial hierarchies into law. They haven’t put Muslims in concentration camps, like the CCP, but I hope our “values” don’t get any closer to their leadership.

I think people abuse the word fascist these days. What makes India fascist? And how does that compare to the economic model of China? Is China fascist?

India is not fascist. The Hindu-nationalism promoted by the BJP and used to degrade and direct violence toward other ethnic groups is a fascist ideology. They never really have tried to pretend otherwise:

> In 2004, when now-Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi was the Chief Minister of Gujarat, school textbooks published by the Gujarat State Board portrayed Hitler as a hero, and glorified fascism. The tenth-grade social studies textbook had chapters entitled "Hitler, the Supremo," and "Internal Achievements of Nazism."

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/hitlers-hindus-indias-nazi-l...

China is an authoritarian state Capitalist regime, but not fascist, because of its history and relationship with communist ideologies, and how they still shape their internal politics and ruling structures.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#113

Post by bradleykingz »

AndrewUnmuted wrote: post #87
enahs-sf wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Tiktok is clearly a data vacuum masquerading as a social media platform.

Aren't all social media platforms guilty of being data vacuums?

I'd rather not be feeding my draconian regime

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#114

Post by ppeetteerr »

OkGoDoIt wrote: post #107

So if WeChat is basically the only messaging app allowed in China, and WeChat is not allowed to be used in India, is there any widely available platform that Indian citizens can use to chat with Chinese citizens? Making it impossible or at least very difficult to communicate with people in another country seems like it’s only going to make any divide even worse in the long term. Think of the fallout of Facebook filte…

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Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#115

Post by kumarvvr »

amrrs wrote: post #40

Covid cases are on rise in India. Government didn't handle lockdown well to accommodate guest (migrant) workers and they were stranded. On top of all these, lives of Indian soldiers died recently in a clash with Chinese soldiers and China is continuously testing limits at Galwan Valley. You need a disruptive breaking news to crush all these and prove Government is in control. This is simply that. This is nothing but…

As i said earlier in the thread.

India must shift its trade integration into democracies and wean away from China.

Everything must have a beginning and this is the right time for India to wake up and stop its indirect economic support toan authoritarian bully.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#116

Post by saltedonion »

ianleeclark wrote: post #57
saltedonion wrote: post #42

India is absolutely right in banning TikTok as it is a significant national securities threat. As long as the platforms recommendation and ranking algos are a black box, there is no guarantee that China isn’t conducting misinformation campaigns via the platform. At the very least, the government should audit the algos and make sure China can’t arbitrarily alter ranking results.

Are YouTube algorithms open? I don't really see a difference here. Nation state vs. private corporation is different on paper, but I don't see why. They're both going to react to material stimuli to increase their standings.

You have a good point. But TikTok is much more risky, and as as such requires much more scrutiny given existing body of knowledge between how chinese social media / chat companies such as WeChat enforce government censorship and aid in propagating misinformation.

This might be a shock to most people in the western world, but if you go on almost ANY news website in china, the headline news is dedicated to government propaganda.

The reality is that Chinese firms and government operates together intimately. Nearly all sizable firms have a party secretary that is involved in board level decisions, and steps in when things get political. You can ponder who has the final say.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#117

Post by blackoil »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #92
chrisco255 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We in the U.S. should have partnered more closely with India in the first place. India is democratic and hold values closer to our own. The CCP not so much.

I believe the shift to this is already happening. That's perhaps why China is getting a bit more cocky

More to do with India being on back foot. Lockdown has halted the economy, millions of migrant workers have been displaced and MSMEs are in disarray. India can't afford to have a war at the moment.

I don't think any substantial shift will happen in near future.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#118

Post by ketzu »

OkGoDoIt wrote: post #107

So if WeChat is basically the only messaging app allowed in China, and WeChat is not allowed to be used in India, is there any widely available platform that Indian citizens can use to chat with Chinese citizens? Making it impossible or at least very difficult to communicate with people in another country seems like it’s only going to make any divide even worse in the long term. Think of the fallout of Facebook filte…

> So if WeChat is basically the only messaging app allowed in China

How did you get that impression? There are a ton of chinese messanging apps, e.g., QQ, which is also on the list of banned apps.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#119

Post by Nasrudith »

systemvoltage wrote: post #16
markovbot wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would find it very problematic if the US government attempted to interfere with it's citizens downloading whatever software they want. I absolutely do not trust the US government to be the arbitrator of what app's are "safe".

What are your thoughts about China banning anything but local apps/services for domestic use but the rest of the world is OK with allowing Chinese apps/services to compete with the domestic apps/services? I think there is some level of asymmetry here, not sure how best to resolve it without giving up the citizen's freedoms as you expressed. This asymmetry is problematic because western democracies are barred to profi…

Really they are seperate matters of banning in my opinion of speech vs payment as murky and intertwined as they may be. Demonetizing it is far more defensible than banning the speech per se and far less exploitable and narrower scoped to the goals.

Essentially in this case it would make more sense to embargo financial systems from Chinese application developers (putting aside how poorly the attempted trade war have gone in the past) but the apps themselves being technically legal.

I am not sure of the actual cold war legal specifics but it would be like the difference between wiring money to Pravda being illegal funding of the USSR but republishing it in the US to point out what the hell they are saying internally would be protected. (The piracy being allowed is essentially a feature - why privledge enemies with your enforcement absent existing treaties?)

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#120

Post by crispyporkbites »

ppeetteerr wrote: post #114
OkGoDoIt wrote: post #107

So if WeChat is basically the only messaging app allowed in China, and WeChat is not allowed to be used in India, is there any widely available platform that Indian citizens can use to chat with Chinese citizens? Making it impossible or at least very difficult to communicate with people in another country seems like it’s only going to make any divide even worse in the long term. Think of the fallout of Facebook filte…

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