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Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

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Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#171

Post by UK-Al05 »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #73
silveroriole wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if they have heard of them it’ll be like “oh, [software], that thing the data entry guy uses? Cool, I guess...” I mean, how impressed would you be meeting a guy who works at a big office supply company? Most software, to the users, is equivalent to other basic office tools like pens and staplers (except more frustrating to use). It doesn’t exactly have that wow factor.

Hah that's if you're lucky. Most of the time when someone says they work at SAP or Oracle they get a "God I hate SAP" because they're using a GUI from 1990 that looks like ass and is not intuitive.

That is my first reaction...

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#172

Post by [deleted] »

battertenr wrote: post #47

The reason is because it is a terrible job. Unlikely 90% of other jobs, you have to mentally burn your brain out each day, constantly learn new things, and focus intensely, supposedly for 8 hours. The reward is nothing, not even good pay outside of a couple of tech giants in the USA. If you compare it to a trade, there is a night and day difference to your mental health. The wage data in this article is meaningless b…

[deleted]

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#173

Post by tehjoker »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #14
chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

Is the social status of computer scientists zero, or do computer scientists choose not to go into politics or other leadership positions? I suspect it's the latter [anecdotal; opinion; citation needed]. CS people are a tribe on their own (if I may generalize); I've not met anyone with an interest in participating in politics. They have strong opinions on politics, but not to the point where they're willing to represe…

I care about politics and participate, just not electorally. ^_^;

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#174

Post by UK-Al05 »

mylons wrote: post #114
chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

i’m one of your peers and i don’t care that you’re staff engineer at google. congratulations, you’ve scaled the advertising business beyond what was thought possible.

The advertising business actually has social status the UK. Saatchi brothers have links with the conservative party for example.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#175

Post by FHermisch »

I studied CS up to a German Diploma (comparable to a Major-Degree) and it was hard. Now, ten years later, with all that advances in AI I finally know why I had to learn all that theoretical stuff: for the future to come. Do your major degree, it makes the future more fun!

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#176

Post by orthoxerox »

exdsq wrote: post #100
boomlinde wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, Civil Engineers do learn physics as part of their course. The analogy is apt for exactly that reason. Some knowledge in physics is fundamentally required, but for the civil engineer it's only professionally relevant to the extent that they can apply it to solve practical problems. A solid understanding of physics (and indeed how to come out wiser after reading a paper relevant to your field) is just one part…

What would you learn in a BSc Software Engineering that's not in a BSc Computer Science course that's not going to become redundant after a couple years and couldn't be covered in a module? I have thought about this before and argued for Software Engineering to be a specific course/field, but it's just too ephemeral at the moment with a lack of 'core' elements to warrant a 3 year course. Edit: To be clear, I want the…

> What would you learn in a BSc Software Engineering that's not in a BSc Computer Science course that's not going to become redundant after a couple years and couldn't be covered in a module?

Requirements management, information security, software architecture, all the big picture topics that are applied and not theoretical in nature.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#177

Post by whichdan »

corpMaverick wrote: post #169
chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

> I don't think CS is a high social status field at all. I totally agree with you. I believe this is one of the factors why women hesitate to enter the field. They are more socially aware than we are. Also, even in IT areas, technical capable people are relegated. We get good salaries but we don't get fancy titles. We are the only profession that allows to be managed by outsiders. Financial firms(and finance departme…

Please don't assume everyone on HN is male.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#178

Post by gedy »

radford-neal wrote: post #126
ghaff wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That pretty much lays out one of the more standard explanations for why more women don't go into CS. Things arguably changed in the early 80s with the rise of PCs and gaming. While programming certainly existed before that, it wasn't something that most kids were exposed to in high school and CS curricula in general were heavily theory oriented and often in the Math department. Today, if you want to be a mechanical e…

Could this actually be good, or at least quite understandable? (I'm not actually sure whether you intend your comment to just be descriptive, or also judgemental.) Does anyone expect college music programs to be easily accessible to people who didn't play an instrument, or sing in a choir, during high school? Similarly for dance, and drama, and art. And if you're right that mechanical engineering schools no longer ex…

> "There remains the possibility that a toxic culture in high school has prevented some students from realizing that they are interested in computers"

I take some issue if the characterization is "the nerds" are the toxic ones here. It's been a while, but the high school culture was overall toxic if you were not attractive and popular, and computer geek types were frequently targets for their interests. Young women were as bad as the males in the shunning.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#179

Post by na85 »

corpMaverick wrote: post #169
chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

> I don't think CS is a high social status field at all. I totally agree with you. I believe this is one of the factors why women hesitate to enter the field. They are more socially aware than we are. Also, even in IT areas, technical capable people are relegated. We get good salaries but we don't get fancy titles. We are the only profession that allows to be managed by outsiders. Financial firms(and finance departme…

>They are more socially aware than we are.

Is there any evidence that women are more likely to choose careers with high social prestige?

I find this doubtful, since in North America at least the traditionally female-dominated job sectors seem to be the ones with lower social prestige. Compare the prestige of a nurse with a cardiac surgeon: which is more stereotypically male?

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#180

Post by exdsq »

orthoxerox wrote: post #176
exdsq wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you learn in a BSc Software Engineering that's not in a BSc Computer Science course that's not going to become redundant after a couple years and couldn't be covered in a module? I have thought about this before and argued for Software Engineering to be a specific course/field, but it's just too ephemeral at the moment with a lack of 'core' elements to warrant a 3 year course. Edit: To be clear, I want the…

> What would you learn in a BSc Software Engineering that's not in a BSc Computer Science course that's not going to become redundant after a couple years and couldn't be covered in a module? Requirements management, information security, software architecture, all the big picture topics that are applied and not theoretical in nature.

I took a module in my MSc in CS on these topics and they were boring, out of date, and things you learn as you need on the job anyway (I took a part-time MSc while working). They were also covered in just two modules.

Sure, some courses could be up-to date but ultimately they'll be out of date in a couple years. Core concepts like OO are a bit more stable but you can be taught this in an applied sense or a theoretical sense and both are covered in a good CS course anyway.

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