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Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

theguardian.com

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Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#121

Post by toyg »

danjac wrote: post #100
namdnay wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's managed to keep sole control of Russia for 20 years, and probably made himself one of the wealthiest people in the world, so he's definitely playing fiddle for a lot of people

At this point he's a prisoner of his own making. Yes he has personal wealth to last generations, but there is no clear path for him to retire and quietly step aside for a younger successor. Even during late Soviet times there was always a slightly fitter and younger General Secretary to take over, but it's unclear how this would happen in modern Russia without a bloody power struggle. A strong leader at this point wo…

Franco won the civil war in 1939 and did not really plan for succession until 30 years later. Spain didn't fall apart (and it could have - apart from the usual oligarchic strife, they even had competing claims to the stooge-like monarchy Franco had installed). So hey, maybe it will work out. Mugabe lasted into his 90s and died in his bed, the country did not break more than he had already broken it.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#122

Post by sitkack »

eukgoekoko wrote: post #77
willvarfar wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is a book review. What do you think of the book that is being reviewed? Does it go into enough detail, and get its facts straight?

Given all these inaccuracies in this advertising artice I don't feel too much convinced. I'd recommend everyone reading the book by Paul Khlebnikov https://books.google.de/books?id=vb2ZAAAAIAAJ&redir_esc=y which gives a detailed insider view on Russian politics of that era. BTW, writing this book has costed the guy his life. As for "Putin's People" it looks like an another unwitting attempt to cash in on anti-Putin h…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Journalists_killed_in...

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#123

Post by sitkack »

monkeycantype wrote: post #93
throwaway8941 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Kazakhstan. We are irrelevant to the world because we have very weak economy and terrible, all-pervading corruption, not because we don't have nukes. If we had them, they would probably have been sold to some terrorist groups out there already.

One day I hope to come to your country and travel on horseback. I don't know if there really are forests of apple trees that grow apples I'd need two hands to hold, but if it's true I want to ride through in spring when the trees are in blossom. The few Kazakh people I've mentioned this too, have dismissed the idea with phrases like 'don't bother, it's an ex soviet strongman kleptocracy shit hole with las vegas archi…

This kind of thing is possible starting in eastern Turkey and continues in the rural areas going east. I don't know about security, is probably ok, who knows. But you should do it now, don't wait.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#124

Post by koheripbal »

chaoz_ wrote: post #60

Russia is losing points in the tech innovation category, but is definitely leading in the autocracy innovation. As Sergei Guriev ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Guriev ) pointed out, the regime will perish when government will have to pay too much for the information war and the population simple won't be able to satisfy their basic needs (empty fridge). This is quite scary.

The information war is a lot cheaper than the Cold War was. They seem to be making a significant profit from insider trading, manipulating markets, and selling military arms.

It's hard to see a negative end-game to the Russian story in the short term.

The biggest threat seems to be a disorganized power grab after Putin retires or kicks the bucket - but I suspect they have a secret succession plan for that.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#125

Post by toyg »

pritovido wrote: post #58
toyg wrote: post #39

Putin and his friends do a pretty decent job of running an old-school oligarchy. That's not really the problem, there is nothing groundbreaking in their approach. The problem is that the "Western" bloc (if there ever was such a thing, really) is currently ruled by elites that fundamentally share those values: weak collective institutions, strong private corporations, the bottom line as the final measure of virtue, an…

Putin is hated outside of Russia but is loved in Russia, because he cares about Russian interest first. Russia is the biggest country in the world. Has so many natural resources so has always been coveted by Empires: The French one and the German, now the US and financial elites Empire. It also counterweights US military power, something the US does not tolerate, they need to to destroy it like Roman Empire had to de…

Russian money is absolutely welcome over here - London is positively awash with it, from “Chelski” on down. It got to a point where laws had to be passed to stop the worst excesses (if one’s wealth is “unexplainable” now the UK government can crack down on it) and maintain a shred of decency. The post-Crimea sanctions annoyed a lot of people over here, I can assure you. Russia might be poor but Russian oligarchs are definitely not, and they do business like any other global oligarch does.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#126

Post by vetinari »

qbaqbaqba wrote: post #115
toyg wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the irony is that, in the long run, it turned Russia into an even stronger competitor.

It's hard to say how Russia would look like without the Revolution. It could be democratic.

Seeing how and where Kerenskij directed Russia after the february coup, we can safely say that Russia would be non-existent. Just like Ottoman or Habsburg empires, that disappeared at the same time.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#127

Post by gwern »

eukgoekoko wrote: post #36

> by a coterie of former KGB officers, or "siloviki" "Siloviki" are not exactly KGB officers, "silovik" is a name for every security, military or intelligence serviceman which is accurately described in the linked article https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/20/west-p... It's fun to see how Guardian keeps playing Chinese whispers.

If all security, military etc are 'siloviki', then by definition, a "coterie of former KGB officers" is in fact a "coterie of siloviki".

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#128

Post by throwaway8941 »

monkeycantype wrote: post #93
throwaway8941 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Kazakhstan. We are irrelevant to the world because we have very weak economy and terrible, all-pervading corruption, not because we don't have nukes. If we had them, they would probably have been sold to some terrorist groups out there already.

One day I hope to come to your country and travel on horseback. I don't know if there really are forests of apple trees that grow apples I'd need two hands to hold, but if it's true I want to ride through in spring when the trees are in blossom. The few Kazakh people I've mentioned this too, have dismissed the idea with phrases like 'don't bother, it's an ex soviet strongman kleptocracy shit hole with las vegas archi…

I've spent quite a bit of time in the sticks. You won't find any "Las Vegas architecture" outside of the capital city (which I avoid calling by its new name). The rest of the country looks very, very different.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#129

Post by NicoJuicy »

vic9109 wrote: post #98
NicoJuicy wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't getting punished enough, that's a fact. And currently Europe is subsidizing green energy a lot, so it's a slow process. If i'm not mistaking, Ukrain is becoming more and more anti-Russia.

I’m always confused when I see people cheering for sanctioning other nations. Is it pleasant to know that people are suffering, having done nothing wrong? I think it’s a global issue. Pretty sure almost everyone has had these thoughts when reading a news article about some wrongdoing of a foreign government and thought “why don’t we just nuke those Reds?”, “why can’t we just come and take over the North Korea”, “that…

Nuking is unrelated to the discussion. I will never promote an actual war.

Russia is meddling in foreign affairs, invading Ukraine, uselessly threatening Europe, trying to spread misinformation and killing other people in foreign countries ( London, Germany, ... )

Even now, Russia is trying to influence/take-over Ukrains news agency.

This is not about conspiracy theories, these are plain facts.

And for this, Russia deserves to be punished. And Russians should realize it is Putin's fault.

We have been too soft on Russia for too long and the problems are just increasing. The soft approach isn't helping anymore.

Edit: new from an hour ago. Nuclear radiation spike. Guess who it is... Again...

https://www.iflscience.com/physics/unexplained-radiation-spi...

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#130

Post by NicoJuicy »

vic9109 wrote: post #119
lovelyviking wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you rather stand nearby and do nothing when Hitler was starting to kill and occupy? Well, Russia is doing exactly the same now. Russia took part of Ukraine, Russia is killing Ukrainians as we speak ... and they plan to do more ... Would you prefer that 'love' attitude toward all kinds of scumbags?

I’m simply against the “let’s go kill all $nation_name” attitude. It’s totally fine to take action against scumbags. I don’t think it’s fine to extend the hate onto the whole nation.

Why would we want to give a country benefits ( in the form of trade), while their head of state are threatening our society.

We shouldn't

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