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Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

theguardian.com

111–120 of 149 posts

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#111
post #103
post #92

There's an irony that a western country, Germany, moved Lenin to Russia in 1917, which was a significant factor in the revolution that followed.

How is that ironic? It was a deliberate strategy to destabilize Russia and undermine their war effort. It worked.

I guess the irony is that, in the long run, it turned Russia into an even stronger competitor.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#112
post #97
post #92

There's an irony that a western country, Germany, moved Lenin to Russia in 1917, which was a significant factor in the revolution that followed.

Germany was not really a democracy in 1917. It was nominally a constitutional monarchy under the Kaiser, with a very limited parliamentary system elected by male sufferage that could pass budgets but little else. By the end of the war - before the Kaiser abdicated - it was pretty much a defacto military dictatorship run by the General Staff.

Yes my mistake, corrected.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#113
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yes, America's "invasion" was a muddle of confused goals & retaliation while Russias "annexation" was conquest. You're quite right that they're different. One does massive incompetent damage while not intending to stay, the other does its damage deliberately with an eye towards the long term health of their newly conquered territory. Russia's imperial ambitions on their western borders aren't exactly new.

Your attempt to cast Russias annexation of territory it has had claims on for hundreds of years as a misdeed isn't really effective. There were actual Russian civilians being protected by Russian forces during that process. There was a fully armed nuclear base that was under threat of falling into the wrong hands during the Ukraine uprising (which, incidentally, the rest of the world knows full well was funded by the…

Every single statement you made is wrong.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your attempt to cast Russias annexation of territory it has had claims on for hundreds of years as a misdeed isn't really effective. There were actual Russian civilians being protected by Russian forces during that process. There was a fully armed nuclear base that was under threat of falling into the wrong hands during the Ukraine uprising (which, incidentally, the rest of the world knows full well was funded by the…

Every single statement you made is wrong.

No, it really isn't.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#115
post #111
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that ironic? It was a deliberate strategy to destabilize Russia and undermine their war effort. It worked.

I guess the irony is that, in the long run, it turned Russia into an even stronger competitor.

It's hard to say how Russia would look like without the Revolution. It could be democratic.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#116
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m always confused when I see people cheering for sanctioning other nations. Is it pleasant to know that people are suffering, having done nothing wrong? I think it’s a global issue. Pretty sure almost everyone has had these thoughts when reading a news article about some wrongdoing of a foreign government and thought “why don’t we just nuke those Reds?”, “why can’t we just come and take over the North Korea”, “that…

Would you rather stand nearby and do nothing when Hitler was starting to kill and occupy? Well, Russia is doing exactly the same now. Russia took part of Ukraine, Russia is killing Ukrainians as we speak ... and they plan to do more ... Would you prefer that 'love' attitude toward all kinds of scumbags?

[deleted]

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#117
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m always confused when I see people cheering for sanctioning other nations. Is it pleasant to know that people are suffering, having done nothing wrong? I think it’s a global issue. Pretty sure almost everyone has had these thoughts when reading a news article about some wrongdoing of a foreign government and thought “why don’t we just nuke those Reds?”, “why can’t we just come and take over the North Korea”, “that…

Would you rather stand nearby and do nothing when Hitler was starting to kill and occupy? Well, Russia is doing exactly the same now. Russia took part of Ukraine, Russia is killing Ukrainians as we speak ... and they plan to do more ... Would you prefer that 'love' attitude toward all kinds of scumbags?

"Would you rather stand nearby and do nothing when Hitler was starting to kill and occupy?"

What were you doing when the US invaded Iraq in 2003?

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#118
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point he's a prisoner of his own making. Yes he has personal wealth to last generations, but there is no clear path for him to retire and quietly step aside for a younger successor. Even during late Soviet times there was always a slightly fitter and younger General Secretary to take over, but it's unclear how this would happen in modern Russia without a bloody power struggle. A strong leader at this point wo…

Yeah and it's not like he'll be able to keep his wealth once he steps down... he's really in the position of a Mafia boss. There's only one way out

"Apres moi, le deluge"

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#119
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m always confused when I see people cheering for sanctioning other nations. Is it pleasant to know that people are suffering, having done nothing wrong? I think it’s a global issue. Pretty sure almost everyone has had these thoughts when reading a news article about some wrongdoing of a foreign government and thought “why don’t we just nuke those Reds?”, “why can’t we just come and take over the North Korea”, “that…

Would you rather stand nearby and do nothing when Hitler was starting to kill and occupy? Well, Russia is doing exactly the same now. Russia took part of Ukraine, Russia is killing Ukrainians as we speak ... and they plan to do more ... Would you prefer that 'love' attitude toward all kinds of scumbags?

I’m simply against the “let’s go kill all $nation_name” attitude. It’s totally fine to take action against scumbags. I don’t think it’s fine to extend the hate onto the whole nation.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#120
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the irony is that, in the long run, it turned Russia into an even stronger competitor.

It's hard to say how Russia would look like without the Revolution. It could be democratic.

I don't know why everybody assumes the Russian populace doesn't like Putin.
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