Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money • Hacker News Board

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#11

Post by roenxi » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 8:41 AM UTC

maharajatever wrote: post #7

roenxi wrote: post #4

> The revolutions in Georgia and Ukraine of 2004-5 fed Putin’s “dark paranoia” that the Kremlin was threatened by a western plot to topple his regime. The Kremlin has subsequently revelled in escalating conflicts with the western powers as a marker of Russia’s newly regained stature on the world stage. The US has spent a generation pushing first the Soviets, then Russia, back into a very tightly confined sphere of in…

The bit that you miss is that the people who had the misfortune to live in the Russian "sphere of influence" did not want, and will never want to be in it. The former Russian "spheres of influence" are very happy to be out of it, and terrified by the prospect of finding themselves drawn into it.

I am the first person to criticise the Russian sphere of influence. They did a terrible job from the rise of the proletariat through to today. Even I could do a better job if left to administer the country.

However to call them aggressors is a total perversion of the word aggression. Their posture is backs-to-the-wall defensive in relation to Western powers.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#12

Post by pythonwizz » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 8:41 AM UTC

"Khodorkovsky was no saint"

From Corruption, tax evasion, illegal business to contract killing. Yes, No kidding, he was not a saint. As far as I know, his former security guard Alexey Pichugin is still in prison for murder.

If you are able to read German, this article is funny (German equivalent of "The Onion"):

Edward Snowden not rich and criminal enough [compared to Khodorkovsky] to deserve asylum in Germany.

https://www.der-postillon.com/2013/12/edward-snowden-nicht-r...

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#13

Post by ForHackernews » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 8:42 AM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #4

> The revolutions in Georgia and Ukraine of 2004-5 fed Putin’s “dark paranoia” that the Kremlin was threatened by a western plot to topple his regime. The Kremlin has subsequently revelled in escalating conflicts with the western powers as a marker of Russia’s newly regained stature on the world stage. The US has spent a generation pushing first the Soviets, then Russia, back into a very tightly confined sphere of in…

> invading every other country in Western Asia

No, only its nearby neighbors. Maybe ask Ukrainians or Georgians how they feel about the Russian sphere of influence.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#14

Post by 082349872349872 » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 8:47 AM UTC

xenospn wrote: post #2

I’m often wondering if Putin is, in fact, the most powerful person in the world by a very large margin. He might not have a billion people or a space force, but he plays everyone like a fiddle.

I beg to differ. Putin's law school thesis was "The Most Favored Nation Trading Principle in International Law." Granted, that may be slightly better than "Tentative Study of Agricultural Marketization", but both are only theses, not a full book: "The Art of the Deal."

The difference is also clear in their propaganda:

Putin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r29k_T_o9To

(any reccos for Xi? I ought to frequent youku.com more often)

Trump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXTA36HO65g

Edit: removed snark

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#15

Post by roenxi » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 8:49 AM UTC

slezyr wrote: post #9

roenxi wrote: post #4

> The revolutions in Georgia and Ukraine of 2004-5 fed Putin’s “dark paranoia” that the Kremlin was threatened by a western plot to topple his regime. The Kremlin has subsequently revelled in escalating conflicts with the western powers as a marker of Russia’s newly regained stature on the world stage. The US has spent a generation pushing first the Soviets, then Russia, back into a very tightly confined sphere of in…

> such fears 'paranoid' or to paint Russia as some sort of aggressor. Did you missed how Russia invaded those both countries? It's an aggressor.

I don't think anyone in Russia is going to mistake either Georgia or the Ukraine for a major western power plotting to overthrow Putin's regime.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#16

Post by op03 » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 8:55 AM UTC

xenospn wrote: post #2

I’m often wondering if Putin is, in fact, the most powerful person in the world by a very large margin. He might not have a billion people or a space force, but he plays everyone like a fiddle.

He does not play everyone like a fiddle because he is just one man and there are a million things requiring Control in the world. By the time he makes a move a million new things have happened. Ofcourse he has a network but that network suffers from the same flaw.

So its all illusion of control. Easier to achieve among some parts of the population when anyone who points it out gets killed.

But don't mistake it for control. He has lot of buttons he can push but what Outcomes he produces is all bullshit. The world is too complex and even Putin has a 7 inch head which can't fit in all of it.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#17

Post by orbital-decay » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 9:01 AM UTC

slezyr wrote: post #9

roenxi wrote: post #4

> The revolutions in Georgia and Ukraine of 2004-5 fed Putin’s “dark paranoia” that the Kremlin was threatened by a western plot to topple his regime. The Kremlin has subsequently revelled in escalating conflicts with the western powers as a marker of Russia’s newly regained stature on the world stage. The US has spent a generation pushing first the Soviets, then Russia, back into a very tightly confined sphere of in…

> such fears 'paranoid' or to paint Russia as some sort of aggressor. Did you missed how Russia invaded those both countries? It's an aggressor.

You're making their point, kind of. The conflict of 08.08.08 started with Georgians attacking a city of Tskhinvali with MRLs, a very indiscriminate weapon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tskhinvali#Georgian_...

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#18

Post by TomMarius » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 9:04 AM UTC

wickerman wrote: post #10

roenxi wrote: post #4

> The revolutions in Georgia and Ukraine of 2004-5 fed Putin’s “dark paranoia” that the Kremlin was threatened by a western plot to topple his regime. The Kremlin has subsequently revelled in escalating conflicts with the western powers as a marker of Russia’s newly regained stature on the world stage. The US has spent a generation pushing first the Soviets, then Russia, back into a very tightly confined sphere of in…

You hit the nail right on the head. The underlying rusophobia that has been eaten and digested by the english-speaking world after the cold war never ceases to amaze me, particularly in the face of the global threat that is the american military power. America has military bases outside of their own country all over the world and has a proven track record of interfering in other countries' politics, causing several w…

I am very thankful for all the American bases protecting my formerly Warsaw Pact country from being in the pact again.

This is how Russia behaves to us, I think my position is understandable. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/10/russia-opens-c...

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#19

Post by NicoJuicy » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 9:05 AM UTC

xenospn wrote: post #2

I’m often wondering if Putin is, in fact, the most powerful person in the world by a very large margin. He might not have a billion people or a space force, but he plays everyone like a fiddle.

That's utter bullshit and i'll tell you why:

Russia has been severly weakened by democratic Europe. They have lost an insane amount of area since the fall of USSR and Europe has never been "closer" to Moscow, their capital.

They are now getting punished for actions of last resort. Eg. Invading Ukraine, because otherwise their entire naval fleed would be rendered useless, since it couln't even go out.

Russia is weak, although Putin tries to portray it like it isn't. The conflicts they create (eg. with their jets) is just for the show, they can't even afford it to build those jet en masse for themselves, lol.

Re: Putin's People – a groundbreaking study that follows the money

#20

Post by namdnay » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 9:05 AM UTC

gear54rus wrote: post #5

xenospn wrote: post #2

I’m often wondering if Putin is, in fact, the most powerful person in the world by a very large margin. He might not have a billion people or a space force, but he plays everyone like a fiddle.

He might be the most powerful in current soviet union that is CIS. However I fail to see how he can be the most powerful in the world given that USA surpasses russia in both military and economic might (which are pretty much the same thing if you think about it). Russia has no answer to sanctions and those counter-sanctions are just a delusion. USA can make many other countries respect the sanctions due to dollar bei…

The difference being that we suspect Putin has pretty much total control over his empire, whereas a US president for example operates with checks and balances