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Break Up Google

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Re: Break Up Google

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could that be? Server costs? Seems like YouTube would be raking in the cash.

The sheer magnitude of video data they have to deal with is enormous. They, along with netflix, comprise the majority of all internet usage. Yes, the videos you see on your front page with 10s of millions of views are raking in the cash and have negligible hosting cost. Those videos are subsidizing the 10s of millions of videos that get 4-5 views apiece.

> Yes, the videos you see on your front page with 10s of millions of views are raking in the cash and have negligible hosting cost.

But they must have huge hosting costs…

Re: Break Up Google

#152

> Page and Brin each own 25.9% and 25.1% of Alphabet's voting power, respectively, accounting for over half of the company's controlling shares. That's because of Alphabet's super-voting structure, which gives 10 votes per share of its Class B stock. also: > Mark Zuckerberg owns the majority of the voting rights to Facebook due to a dual class structure that weights certain shares over others. I would like to see emi…

Why? If investors are willing to give billions for an almost negligible influence on the company and their investment, so be it. Their choice.

I guess it's still better than just sending money down the drain like Softbank does...

Re: Break Up Google

#153

The author asks how gmail makes money. Their "business email" where you bring your own domain costs about 5GBP a month, and that's their cheapest plan.

It is curious to read someone who has clearly never used Google products pontificating about restructuring Google.

Re: Break Up Google

#154

This is another article where the author goes on a flight of fantasy about how these services work. He conflates public good with public provision. He first states he doesn't know where the revenue comes from and then makes a lot of detailed decisions based on revenues (android apparently needs only a few buildings and engineers). I think this is a perfect example of the sort of wooly and confused thinking behind bre…

> He first states he doesn't know where the revenue comes from and then makes a lot of details decisions based on revenues (android apparently needs only a few buildings and engineers). He proposes 5 spin off companies. Advertising is fine. It’s not clear that YouTube is profitable. And it does have a big synergy in the immense infrastructure. Android he admits isn’t a business beyond trying to bill every user for us…

To me it felt really dishonest because at least some of these services would die and others would become the sort of shitty cash hungry monopoly we see elsewhere in the economy if it weren't for Googles (far from perfect) stewardship.

I even empathise with the monopoly/privacy/advertising concerns. I just think he's either writing a protest article he knows can never be implimented (or taken seriously) OR he's trying to achieve his goal by tricking people into something most don't actually want.

Re: Break Up Google

#155

> Page and Brin each own 25.9% and 25.1% of Alphabet's voting power, respectively, accounting for over half of the company's controlling shares. That's because of Alphabet's super-voting structure, which gives 10 votes per share of its Class B stock. also: > Mark Zuckerberg owns the majority of the voting rights to Facebook due to a dual class structure that weights certain shares over others. I would like to see emi…

This story is worth mentioning:

https://wiki.fuckoffgoogle.de/index.php?title=Google_Agonize...

Imagine Google had filed for bankruptcy at the whims of Larry/Sergey during the 2007-2008 recession instead of buying DoubleClick. I believe that Google IPOed as a $23 billion market cap company.

Re: Break Up Google

#156

This is another article where the author goes on a flight of fantasy about how these services work. He conflates public good with public provision. He first states he doesn't know where the revenue comes from and then makes a lot of detailed decisions based on revenues (android apparently needs only a few buildings and engineers). I think this is a perfect example of the sort of wooly and confused thinking behind bre…

> He first states he doesn't know where the revenue comes from and then makes a lot of details decisions based on revenues (android apparently needs only a few buildings and engineers). He proposes 5 spin off companies. Advertising is fine. It’s not clear that YouTube is profitable. And it does have a big synergy in the immense infrastructure. Android he admits isn’t a business beyond trying to bill every user for us…

Maps would have to be ad-based to be viable. The question is if it would be viable without feeding to/from the rest of Google's ad business, or if it would have to resort to Yelp-style thinly disguised extortion to survive. "Nice restaurant you got there, it'd be a real shame if it fell to page 17 in the listings and all the one-star reviews were listed first. Did you know you can delete negative reviews and get guaranteed first page if you buy the Premium package?"

Re: Break Up Google

#157
post #57

> Page and Brin each own 25.9% and 25.1% of Alphabet's voting power, respectively, accounting for over half of the company's controlling shares. That's because of Alphabet's super-voting structure, which gives 10 votes per share of its Class B stock. also: > Mark Zuckerberg owns the majority of the voting rights to Facebook due to a dual class structure that weights certain shares over others. I would like to see emi…

> I have a big problem with him and the unelected Page and Brin having all that power with no recourse for the market. I just don't get that mindset. Private-company Google said "hey, we're down to be public, but Larry and Sergey will always control the company... cool?" And the market said: "yeah whatever give us those shares". It's not like anyone was holding a gun up to anyone's head, forcing them to buy GOOG. The…

Google has two classes of shares, GOOG (no voting rights) and GOOGL (has voting rights). Despite being worthless for the foreseeable future, meaning until Larry and Sergey sell their shares, the price premium for GOOGL hovers around $5.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/052615/whats-differ...

Re: Break Up Google

#158
> Google Apps and Google Maps are both huge presences in the tech economy. Are they paying for themselves, or are they using search advertising revenue as rocket fuel? Nobody outside Google knows.

Arguably Apple also learned the lesson of how valuable Google Maps is. Direct ad revenue from maps is not the only source of revenue. Maps is a key feature of Android phones, (and iOS really) and Android OS is valuable due as a source of search engine traffic. And the money search engine traffic makes is able to invest in more improvements in Maps.

> The online advertising business has become a Facebook/Google duopoly which is destroying ad-supported publishing and thus intellectually impoverishing the whole population

There is a pretty insightful twitter thread from a journalism prof I can't find just now that made a persuasive case that newspapers killed themselves. They had 30 percent margins in the 90's and instead of adding staff and growing the business they focused on cost cutting. Ad-supported publishers kinda did this to themselves, and it was craigslist who knifed their cash cow (classifieds). And really, Craigslist sat on its ass too.

> The world needs Google Cloud to be viable because it needs more than two public-cloud providers.

IDK how Tim thinks public clouds are funded. Cloud vendors have massive startup costs -- every server you buy takes years of customer billing to pay off -- and I don't think anyone is gonna be down for a bond issue for 'we promise to just be like Google but smaller' spinoffs. I can name a dozen public cloud venders[1], but none have any where near the clout. And yet for some reason Tim isn't talking about why Amazon is a near monopoly.

> the real reason Android exists is that Google needs mobile advertising not to become an Apple monopoly.

This is the same reason Apple Maps exists (and dozens of other services you've never heard of). I have no idea what breaking up Android would accomplish though; Android Inc would pretty much have to replicate the same state of affairs via contracts with Alphabet, with diminished ability to integrate. It's super weird that Nokia face planted a decade ago in their role of providing a third option.

> What we do know is that people who try to make a living as YouTubers sure do complain a lot about arbitrary, ham-handed changes of monetization and content policy.

I don't see how a spinoff saves Youtubers any grief. Tim's general thesis is that Google should spin off it's services, watch the profitable ones thrive and let the break even (or worse) ones die off. If Youtube is a break even affair, I don't see how viewers or content producers benefits from less platform competition in the space. If it's capable of standing alone, what's the harm in Google owning it?

[1]: Google, Oracle, AliCloud, Azure, Rackspace, IBM/Softlayer, Digital Ocean, Saleaforce, VMWare, OVH, Hetzner, Linode,

Re: Break Up Google

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree - There is no way that Youtube could compete without access to google resources. If they had to pay for their own bandwidth, hosting, transcoding, etc while surviving off adsense revenue (paying same google "commission" as everyone else), they would quickly drive themselves into bancruptcy simply due to their popularity! They are stifling competition because they have unlimited funds to throw at anything they…

Would users get a better service from the successors of YouTube? Would we have to watch more ads?

There's a freemium video service in japan called Nico Video [0] that has been around for about the same length of time as Youtube. On the free tier, you're essentially limited to a really shitty video quality, somewhere around 480p. It also has ads and some kind of rate limiting. Besides subscriptions, they also do tie-ups and other PR related stuff. Video quality has never really been that good even on the premium tier. Their whole selling point seems to be community interaction, where by viewers can post comments directly into the video stream [1]. As far as I can tell, they've been bleeding money for the last decade though they seemed to have turned a profit this year.

My conclusion is that no, users would not get a better service.

[0]: https://www.nicovideo.jp

[1]: http://blog.nicovideo.jp/en_info/2013/01/post-037484.html

[2]: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ニコニコ動画#ビジネス

Re: Break Up Google

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine android would probably survive via search engine placement fees similar to safari / iOS / firefox.

Also funded by all the phone manufacturers who have a vested interest in seeing it not die (like the Linux kernel)

Phone manufacturers on average aren't particularly famous for their contributions to the Linux kernel. It's still notoriously difficult to get mainline Linux to run on any Android phone even years after its initial release.
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