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Make educated wireless router/AP upgrade decisions

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Re: Make educated wireless router/AP upgrade decisions

#21
post #4

I can't say that AFC excites me: https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-354364A1.pdf Devices will be sending their GPS coordinates and serial numbers to the FCC to verify what frequencies they can use. It's unclear to me why the serial numbers need to be sent.

I'm concerned about what this means for hardware sold and used in parts of the world which aren't the US.

What guarantees do I have, as someone in Canada, that my device won't be reporting this data to the US federal government for dubious-at-best reasons (especially in the context of international use)?

Re: Make educated wireless router/AP upgrade decisions

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surley the FCC could just publish a data file that clients download and lookup their frequencies.

Nitpick: the FTC is in charge of US consumer protection. You probably wanted to mention the FCC.

Thanks!

Re: Make educated wireless router/AP upgrade decisions

#23
This is a really helpful guide to understand wireless networking. For in-depth reviews, I like to check out SmallNetBuilder [0] as they feature thorough tests and sometimes teardown of the wireless routers. Most "reviews" these days are pretty much just regurgitating the marketing spiel from manufacturers, which really doesn't help much.

Recently, I also stumbled upon a Chinese site [1] which does similar teardowns, but only in Chinese.

[0] https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/

[1] https://www.acwifi.net/category/information

Re: Make educated wireless router/AP upgrade decisions

#24
post #4

I can't say that AFC excites me: https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-354364A1.pdf Devices will be sending their GPS coordinates and serial numbers to the FCC to verify what frequencies they can use. It's unclear to me why the serial numbers need to be sent.

Note that AFC is only required for high power communications. Low power devices (<250mW & <11dBi in any 1MHz band) don't need AFC. It looks like the rules are meant to avoid AFC for consumer gear and require it for professional outdoor installations.

Re: Make educated wireless router/AP upgrade decisions

#25
post #4

I can't say that AFC excites me: https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-354364A1.pdf Devices will be sending their GPS coordinates and serial numbers to the FCC to verify what frequencies they can use. It's unclear to me why the serial numbers need to be sent.

I'm concerned about what this means for hardware sold and used in parts of the world which aren't the US. What guarantees do I have, as someone in Canada, that my device won't be reporting this data to the US federal government for dubious-at-best reasons (especially in the context of international use)?

Question: How hard would it be to block it via firewall?

Re: Make educated wireless router/AP upgrade decisions

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm concerned about what this means for hardware sold and used in parts of the world which aren't the US. What guarantees do I have, as someone in Canada, that my device won't be reporting this data to the US federal government for dubious-at-best reasons (especially in the context of international use)?

Question: How hard would it be to block it via firewall?

If you only have one device (all in one AP/Router/Switch), very. If you have a firewall in front of the APs, extremely easy. You can take a few minutes to check what DNS entries and IPs it's talking to and block that.

Re: Make educated wireless router/AP upgrade decisions

#28
This article is so awesome!

I keep telling people who complain to me about slow WiFi speed that it is their device's fault. A lot of mid range Android phones only have 1x1 802.11ac, which is about 433 Mbps PHY at 80 MHz channel.

Some more expensive Android phones and all iPhones support 2x2 MIMO which gets you up to 867 Mbps PHY at 80 MHz channel.

Some phones have a buggy implementation of VHT80 client, so on 80MHz the PHY rate drops to The AP/Router/Modem combo that all the ISPs give in my country is very much capable of fast WiFi. It has 4x4 MIMO at 802.11ac with 80MHz + 2x2 MIMO at 802.11n up to 40 MHz (I always tell people to avoid 40 MHz on 2.4GHz band!).

On a good phone, this gets you around 600 Mbps with 867 Mbps PHY, on a cheaper device, between 250 and 290 Mbps on 433 Mbps PHY. Devices with 4x4 can get 1.7Gbps PHY, but I do not have any.

This does not stop people from complaining about the free modem they get, demand it is put into bridge mode, buy an ASUS router for >400€, and get the same result. Some (smartly) return the router they bought right away, and request the ISP put the device back into routing mode, but some keep the useless and expensive trophy of stupidity...

Re: Make educated wireless router/AP upgrade decisions

#29
Great Articles. Jotting down some notes as I am reading it.

>Greatly complicating a decision is that Wi-Fi 6E is just around the corner (early devices expected late 2020) that will require (yet again) new hardware -- existing Wi-Fi 6 devices will not support Wi-Fi 6E.

We could technically have WiFi 6 devices working with WiFI 6E as long as they were designed as such. I recall one of the ASUS engineers said their router would work, the problem is compliance and passing FCC certification and if Upgrade were allowed. Yes may be practically we need to buy new hardware. ( Profits )

And I could rant about WiFi 6/ 802.11ax for hours. Basically either buy a decent WiFi 5 or wait for 6E in hope they fix their mess.

MacBook Pro - As far as I know All 2016+ MacBook Pros has 802.11ac 3x3 WiFi by default. Giving you a "marketing" speed of 1300Mbps. Older Generation MacBook Pros has 3x3 for 15", 2x2 for MacBook Pro 13". All non-pros MacBook has always had 2x2 WiFi.

The reason is simply because only Broadcom make WiFI Client chipset that support 3x3. May be at the request of Apple. And the notebook market is basically an Intel only game. You get incentives and bundle pricing from Intel CPU for using Intel WiFi. And Intel doesn't make 3x3 WiFi ( Or they did but only in Centrino era... ) . Not in 802.11ac and likely not in 802.11ax.

Since demand for 3x3 802.11ac continues to be a niche, PC vendors fail to market better WiFi speed as added value. And Intel doesn't want to do a custom WiFi controller just for ~5M unit of MacBook Pro annually. And why innovate when there is no competition? Intel has 90%+ of Notebook PC market shares anyway.

In case anyone is wondering, there is an Broadcom 3x3 WiFi 6E client chipset announced last year. Hopefully you will see this in the next MacBook Pro Upgrade.

One reason people may have heard about the rumours of Broadcom selling their client WiFi business late last year. Their WiFi PC market is limited by Intel's domination, Smartphone market is a similar situation with Qualcomm. And Broadcom's Client WiFi business is primarily an Apple business. For nearly 4 years I have been anticipating Apple doing WiFi on their own before doing 4G/5G Modem. Considering they use more WiFi unit than Intel's current annual WiFi shipment. But so far only ultra low power chip W3 is being used in Apple Watch.

Samsung S20 is also an 2x2 Devices. May be worth an update in the WiFi 6 table.

>The AC#### naming ......

Those naming are confusing, but one way to look at it is the number represent the theoretical maximum capacity of the WiFi network. Those were never intended to be speed. But of course marketing is working is way. So hypothetically speaking a higher speed router gets you faster speed when you have multiple client.

Nice! Turns out all of my 802,11ax Rant is included in the its own Section.

>(1) 802.11ax is not even expected to be made an official IEEE standard until "Sep 2020" (source),

It should be noted the date is prediction. And that date has been moving up a quarter for every meeting since 2018. Draft 3.0 was suppose to be the last Draft, then Draft 5.0 and now Draft 6.0......

> 160Mhz

It should be noted none of the current Mobile Devices ( Or basically Non Intel Wifi 6 devices irrespective of their form factor ) supports 160Mhz ( 160Mhz / 80+80 ). Both Samsung and Apple are on 80Mhz only. This will likely change with WiFi 6E.

>Not all wifi clients are DFS capable!

Wow. I was always under the assumption DFS is a router problem. This sucks.

Such a great site that explains so much what is wrong about WiFi and its industry as a whole. And how it seems no cares about the user experience. There are increasing amount of people who just want to use a simple and working 4G/5G connection than their WiFi.

This is such a great resource I wish I could pay the authors some money as gratitude. It also reminds me of the Internet in the 90s where people spend their time, heart and soul into making something. It is not for SEO, or Ads Revenue. Simply wrote out of passion. ( or may be anger )

Thank You.

Re: Make educated wireless router/AP upgrade decisions

#30
It's interesting that the he says in the guide that it's definitely worth getting a 4x4 MIMO AP/router:

> It is easy to overlook and miss, but beamforming and diversity are the key reasons why you want a 4×4 MIMO router even though most clients are still only 2×2 MIMO. The extra antennas are actually used and offer value (a stronger signal, which translate to better connect speeds for some users)!

Having been a keen user of the TP-Link Omada series of APs I went to check what their capability was. No wonder they don't mention anywhere on the site - it's only 2x2 (for the EAP225). I was able to confirm this by using their maximum speed and the access speeds table in the article.

I don't know how much I'm actually missing out on, but I'm going to stop automatically recommending these products now.

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