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Carving out a niche as a small artist on Spotify

stevebenjamins.com

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Re: Carving out a niche as a small artist on Spotify

#281
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It would be nice if people cared about things beyond $$$ and worked on art for the sake of art True but you generally can't buy groceries or pay your landlord with art.

It would be nice if landlords provided shelter for the sake of providing shelter, and grocers worked for the sake of feeding people, too. And somehow, I've never seen anybody suggest that since Daniel Ek and his team love music so much, they should forego worldly possessions and work for the sake of bringing music to the people.

> It would be nice if landlords provided shelter for the sake of providing shelter, and grocers worked for the sake of feeding people, too.

One day, we can hope.

Re: Carving out a niche as a small artist on Spotify

#282
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Terrestrial radio isn’t paying based on the number of listeners." I know this. However, you are acting like a terrestrial broadcast to n listeners is equivalent to a Spotify non-broadcast to one listener. If n > 265 you are making more money with Spotify per person listening to the song. If 10,000 people are listening to it on a radio broadcast, you are getting $0.12. If 10,000 people listen on Spotify, you are gett…

Try reading your first paragraph again. You’re contradicting yourself and are completely missing the point. You say that you “know” that terrestrial broadcast isn’t based on the number of listeners, and then go and make the same argument that Spotify pays better than radio based on “radio plays with n listeners.” > You are acting like a terrestrial broadcast to n listeners is equivalent to a Spotify non-broadcast to…

> You say that you “know” that terrestrial broadcast isn’t based on the number of listeners, and then go and make the same argument that Spotify pays better than radio based on “radio plays with n listeners.”

What I am saying is that even though the $0.12 isn't based on the number of listeners, there is a number of listeners (n). So that $0.12 should be divided by that n in order to calculate how much money is paid per listen. If that n > 265, then Spotify is paying more per listen. I agree that the on-demand nature means Spotify should cost more than radio. Still, the argument that Spotify does pay less than radio per listen is wrong, and it makes your case a lot weaker if insist on that, because it's contrary.

When I said $0.12 a stream isn't a viable model for music, I didn't mean because it paid the artists too little, I meant it cost too much! Paying the artist and songwriter $0.12 per stream means charging the user about $0.15 each time they listen to the song. (Which doesn't seem right when compared to the purchase price of a song, unless people listen to music they purchase fewer than 8 times on average.) If they stream 25 hours per month, at average song length of 4 minutes, that's about 375 songs per month, or about $56/month. For heavy listeners, it would be a lot more. I don't think many people would sign up at that level. It definitely couldn't be covered by advertising. That said, you could probably get a lot more than Spotify is paying. Still, it does indicate some room there to get more than the $0.00318.

It is surprising to me that we don't see more exclusivity with music like we do with video content, where subscriptions to various services end up being necessary if you want to watch a particular show. The consumption patterns are quite different. However, given the number of competing platforms out there and the low switching costs associated associated, probably the best strategy is for a whole company with a lot of publishing rights to pull their content from the lowest paying services. Something like what Disney did to Netflix.

Re: Carving out a niche as a small artist on Spotify

#283
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the comparison goes somewhat like this: selling one CD puts X dollars in the creator's pocket. How many times need a track be played on Spotify to generate the same number of dollars? The answer is 471, I think.

Right, but the way it was phrased was that it was the CD that was being listened to. I was curious.

Yeah, I was saying if you bought a CD you would pay $15 for 10 tracks, or $1.50 per track. You would have to listen to that CD 471 times for the cost per listen per track to reach what Spotify pays the artist per stream.

Re: Carving out a niche as a small artist on Spotify

#284
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great point. And speaking from insider knowledge, I can tell you that there are consultants you can pay anywhere from a little bit up to thousands per month who will get you tested/placed on different editorial playlists. The more you can get on, and the longer you can stay on them (there is no guarantee of staying on, they only keep you on if you gain traction), the more success you will have.

Is this still true? > We want to make something crystal clear: no one can pay to be added to one of Spotify’s editorial playlists. Our editors pick tracks with listeners in mind. They make these decisions using data about what’s resonating most with their community of listeners. https://artists.spotify.com/blog/share-new-music-for-playlis...

Is that still the official policy? Yes. Is that what happens in practice? No.

If you want it from a source other than me: "Inside the Black Market for Spotify Playlists" https://www.dailydot.com/upstream/spotify-playlist-black-mar...

Re: Carving out a niche as a small artist on Spotify

#285
post #34

Spotify's discovery playlist is a double edged sword. My account is permanently screwed because I decided to listen to a lot of rain sounds when going to sleep for a few months while I had a puppy. Now ALL I get for recommendations are calm sounds. I don't actually listen to these during the day, I want my old stuff. I hate it and want to reset the discovery playlist, but seems I have no way of doing so aside from ge…

Man, I had about a month of a hardcore punk kick and its not my normal music style at all, however since then (about a year ago now) the discover playlist still suggests all kinds of crazy punk to me - dont know how to get it to stop. At least on youtube there is a button that lets you say "dont recommend this anymore". Spotify needs the same.

Re: Carving out a niche as a small artist on Spotify

#286
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try reading your first paragraph again. You’re contradicting yourself and are completely missing the point. You say that you “know” that terrestrial broadcast isn’t based on the number of listeners, and then go and make the same argument that Spotify pays better than radio based on “radio plays with n listeners.” > You are acting like a terrestrial broadcast to n listeners is equivalent to a Spotify non-broadcast to…

> You say that you “know” that terrestrial broadcast isn’t based on the number of listeners, and then go and make the same argument that Spotify pays better than radio based on “radio plays with n listeners.” What I am saying is that even though the $0.12 isn't based on the number of listeners, there is a number of listeners (n). So that $0.12 should be divided by that n in order to calculate how much money is paid p…

You are still completely missing my point w/r/t the number of listeners with radio, but I’m not sure how else to get you to see it, so I’m gonna duck out. Best of luck to you.

Re: Carving out a niche as a small artist on Spotify

#287

His comment on albums is interesting. It seems like he's given up on getting press, so albums don't make as much sense for him, but music critics are still the major driver for who gets listens in the non-pop music space. I don't see albums disappearing for that reason. I also enjoy listening to albums much more than singles, but that could just be me.

Agreed. I think his view comes more from the pop section of the market. Everything I consume and discover is still album-based.

Re: Carving out a niche as a small artist on Spotify

#288
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... just how much effort and money is required to produce the art you personally care about. I wholeheartedly agree with the “effort” part and I also think, the comparison of music to code is very apt. However, wouldn’t it be fair to say that the money investment for creating the music (i.e. a mastered WAV or whatever format) can be incredibly low these days? And even distribution is incredibly low cost. So barrier…

You are incredibly uninformed on the lives of pro musicians. Trust me, I am one. Labels are dead. Studios are dead. The onus to procure the gear and space to make music is entirely on the artist now. Yes, costs for some gear have come down, but to do truly professional work you need to invest at least a couple thousand in a computer and software (DAW, plugins, etc), another thousand minimum in speaker monitors, anoth…

Apologies for not answering sooner - I had detoxed from HN for a few days.

Further apologies for not making it abundantly clear that I'm on your side on the topic that professional musicians deserve to be paid like any other profession including programmers.

So inadvertently my GP post probably come across as disputing your right to earn money with your music. That's the opposite of what I was trying to say.

My post was more an (obviously misfired) attempt to guide the argument away from the equipment and distribution expenditures side of making professional calibre music - since that's trending significantly lower and lower compared to the 70s and 80s. Therefore I believe professional musicians are doing themselves less and less favours by mentioning that argument.

I think the more successful leading argument would be the investment of talent and time. To me talent is a continuing valid argument, since as a music consumer I hate to lose the most talented musicians to being average in some other profession at the cost of them not developing that talent to the best it can be, and to publish their work for the benefit of larger society (including me). -- I'd also hate so lose the most talented programmers to other professions etc.).

And to maximize their musical talent, that talented individual needs to have the time and energy to invest by getting paid for making music. The required cost of gear only adds to that need, but I'd say that your time and energy is much, much more valuable than your gear with today's equipment. For example over 5 years, I'd say your time should be at the very least 5 to 10 times more valuable than your gear - quite possibly more. (That ratio was very different in the 70s and 80s with lower cost of living and higher equipment and distribution costs).

And hell yes, you should get paid - and my heart bleeds for you and so many other high caliber musicians, who are finding it increasingly difficult to make even a modest living with creating outstanding music.

p.s. I can't profess to be knowledgeable about your arm of the professional music business. I have however reasonably deep familiarity with other parts (assuming your definition of a professional musician would also include those parts). For what it's worth, I count a sibling, a sibling-in-law, and a nephew as current full-time professional musicians in performing live, producing, arranging, musical direction and such. And we are close, so therefore talk a lot. And it may not count anymore, but I also made my living with playing live music for a while before bailing out to become a software developer. Which in turn over the years funded my reasonably nice home studio - so I know the costs of acquisition, maintenance and continued upgrades quite intimately.

Agreed, I can become a developer for quite a bit less money in gear - but as I said above, the equipment cost pales to a rather small percentage in comparison to the time and energy investment while needing to eat, while keeping dry and warm/cool, and even more so when you're trying to support a family.

But above all: My very best wishes to you in trying to survive and hopefully find or continue your niche to thrive in the generally grim environment facing professional musicians - only made worse by the pandemic.

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