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Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

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191–200 of 288 posts

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#191
Every group of people have some average preference for certain professions. I am sure there is some profession which miss Indian workers because they tend to concentrate in tech and petrol station or whatever it is in your country. If you choose to work in tech just prepare to deal with it and stop whinging, the same way a white person should accept the fact that his representation will be lower in tech than in the general population.

If black people want to be more in tech they should just change their preference, I don't think that tech people are inherently less accepting than lawyers or the oh so racist police where there is much larger black representation. The first Indian who was in tech was also a bit of rarity, they just kept coming and it is fine now. To summarise, it is all on black people to fix if they choose to, the rest of us can't do much about it.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#192
I've always wondered whether it has anything to do with the number of applicants whom are black. It's the same argument with why there are fewer women developers, there could simply be that there are more men in the industry.

Let's assume that 9 out of 10 applicants for a developer role are men, then the odds of that role being filled by anyone that isn't a man is 10% (not factoring other considerations such as skill, experience etc).

Is this not a similar challenge with black developers? According to the stack overflow survey, the ethinicity of the respondants whom are Black or African descent is only at 4.5%.

I'd be interested to see data on the demographics of, not only the employed staff at a company but all applicants that have applied including those whom were rejected or turned down the roles.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#193
post #103

All of these comments and I’m left wondering if I’m the only black person commenting in this thread. I’ve been passed up for promotions, fired, and hired based solely on my color. I keep moving on but y’all it’s been 20 years of this. And it just started getting a little better in the past 3 years but is a total gamble based on where you work. In my current Fortune 500 job, I was hired for my expertise then was moved…

Here's Google's latest diversity report: https://kstatic.googleusercontent.com/files/25badfc6b6d1b33f... Whites are underrepresented at similar rates as blacks. Asians are overrepresented by 900%.

It would be helpful to understand what numbers you're using to make these claims.

For e.g., White non-hispanics make up ~62% of the US population. At Google they make up 65.9% of leadership representation.

Black non-hispanics make up ~12% of US population and only 2.6% of Google leadership representation.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#194
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, it’s important to treat them...the way you should treat everyone. True statement. I think you’ll need to elaborate further on what the philosophical and semantic difference is between ignoring and noticing, because the outcome is the same in your example.

You assume that the unconscious biases are less powerful than the conscious ones, which may not be true (I don't believe it is). A personal example - I "treated everyone equally" for a long time, and then I was brought to be aware of the "don't ignore color" perspective. I started paying active attention and realized I was talking over women in meetings regularly. Crazy regularly. I had no idea. And then I noticed th…

I’m not assuming anything. I’m merely pointing out that both scenarios described had the same desired outcome.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's Google's latest diversity report: https://kstatic.googleusercontent.com/files/25badfc6b6d1b33f... Whites are underrepresented at similar rates as blacks. Asians are overrepresented by 900%.

It would be helpful to understand what numbers you're using to make these claims. For e.g., White non-hispanics make up ~62% of the US population. At Google they make up 65.9% of leadership representation. Black non-hispanics make up ~12% of US population and only 2.6% of Google leadership representation.

To clarify, this is hires (as per the thread "Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'").

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#197
I'm half black. I think my story started pretty bad but become much better so sharing hoping someone else may feel more hopeful.

I grew up in a south european racist country and I had some fun times. Nothing serious, kids making fun of me, cops stopping me to check if I was dealing drugs, if I had a passport or a knife. I started working when I was 14 as a developer online, mainly because I wanted to get out of there and stop being surrounded by idiots. That country was terrible for jobs anyway and by 16 I was getting a decent pay for the country, just by making a few ad supported website and by freelancing with the rest of the world. At 22, after getting my dose of almost free university, I ran to London, where I never experienced any form of racism. I raised some money for my startup (which failed) without particular problems and after that I started contracting. Given my provable experience, I got senior level jobs pretty much immediately and got a nice pay for Europe at 23-24 (90k+£) which increased and become a remote half eng half manager job in the following years. All those racist kids back in my home country are still stuck in jobs paying less than a barista in the UK.

It doesn't matter what other people think. Your perceived "race" doesn't matter, it's just one of the characteristics that define you and some people will react positively and give you free scholarships or quota jobs. Some people will react negatively and think you're a criminal, some won't give you a job. That's life. Probably something similar happens to you because of your height, because you're attractive / ugly, because of your gender, because you dress well / bad. If you were to think of all the possible positive and negative characteristics that influence how someone is perceived, you could partition people in so many different groups, you wouldn't even know who you should "positively discriminate" which means negatively discriminate everyone else. But there are so many other things you can do to improve yourself and compensate with words and skills whatever bias may someone else hold.

I had some insecurities linked to my skin color and to some physical defects but, as part of training to become a better leader, I learned to embrace them and to use them to to surround yourself with people who can be positive for you.

I don't like how this issue has been politicised recently and I think it reflects incredibly poorly on us. One of the stigma I have to fight is that of scaring someone if we're walking in the same street at night. I hope the situation will not get worse and that we won't raise a generation of kids that think that black people = violent riots to steal tv and get money.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#198
post #196

I'd hire either of you, if you kick ass on the take home challenge. Work and teamwork matters. Everything else has no place in the work place.

You don't ask the first meal for free when you go to the restaurant, do you?

None of my last three jobs - the dev lead position, the cloud architect/developer or Amazon asked me to do a take home test.

I’ve never done a take home test in my life. Every time I’ve been on the job market before now, I usually have multiple offers within two weeks. By the time I did a “take home test”, I would have at least one or two offers that didn’t require it.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it seems to me a rather dangerous precedent to argue that one must ally with blm. after all if you are not a social conservative you are perpetuating an immoral status quo. of course one might work to end qualified immunity for example or to equalize the education and economic gaps without being a Marxist. let's not confuse ends and means.

Denying the existence of POC and their oppressed status in America is more than just "not supporting BLM," it's a denial of the foundation of their reason for existing.

> Denying the existence of POC and their oppressed status in America is more than just "not supporting BLM," it's a denial of the foundation of their reason for existing.

Acknowledging the personhood of people of color is not synonymous with supporting BLM. One might broadly support the ends of BLM while being uncomfortable with the means.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#200
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

POC means people of color means non white. You taking the anthropologic perspective isn't scientifically incorrect - race doesn't actually exist, after all, in any meaningful way. However it is sociologically incorrect to call white people "colored."

BLM has been creeping towards Asia where I am, and some of those activists are absurdly trying to redefine some Asian views of aesthetics as White admirations that the noble White must responsibly educate to eliminate. To me these ungrounded imaginations are clearly stemming from the idea that some people are objectively not colored and others are colored. I’ve never come across this “POC” term but if it’s not racist…

You're right to point out the absurdity of dividing the universe of people into two groups: white and non-white or white and "POC." But humans have evolved to be suspicious of those who aren't in their tribe, who are different. We are naturally xenophobic. We reflexively divide the world into "Them" and "Us." There are cultural cleavages like sexual orientation and religion that divide us, but in the US, skin color continues to be one of the stickiest and most powerful dividing lines. "White" and "POC" are words we use to discuss this powerful force in our culture. White people would still, often subconsciously, divide the world into "Them" and "Us," "whites" and "POC" if we did not acknowledge that it's happening. To understand and respond to the phenomenon, we need words like "POC" to describe it.

Of course, "POC" was first used in a Western cultural context, and it may not translate in a straightforward way to an Asian context. I am sure racism also exists in Asia--xenophobia is a universal human weakness--but it may require different language to accurately conceptualize and the dynamics might be very different. It also might not be nearly as pressing of an issue as it is in the US. I don't know.

But if you've never heard the term "POC" before, you're clearly not familiar with the racial dynamics in the US. I would encourage you to learn more before dismissing a term as racist or judging the BLM movement in the US. I can't speak to the activists in Asia you mention, but I assure you BLM is a very much needed movement in the US.

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