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The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

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Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#141

Post by dvdkhlng »

ReticentVole wrote: post #102
ed-209 wrote: post #39

"Believing people without symptoms didn't spread the virus, the agency limited testing, discouraged masking..." This is false by Fauci's own account (see below interview) in which he states mask wearing was discouraged in order to secure availability for health workers. This is no small distinction as it raises questions about the importance of public trust/credibility during a health crisis. https://m.youtube.com/wa…

There are a minimal number of excess deaths now associated with COVID, so what is the problem? Allowing the community to acquire immunity naturally during Summer is a good way to minimise the spread of the virus come Winter. COVID severity seems heavily linked with Vitamin D levels, so lockdown during Summer would possibly have been counter-productive for the general population. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/cov…

Looking at the "Weekly number of deaths" plot in the page you linked, I think what it says is, that the number of all-cause /excess/ deaths throughout april and may is more than 100 thousand people.

This is without looking at the actual cause of death, but given the corona situation and lack of other factors explaining such an unusual rise in mortality, I'd assume that most of those excess deaths are in fact somehow related to COVID.

Note also that the same mortality "signal" is much stronger in highly populated areas, e.g. New York City [1] and I don't see how this can be explained away as a "minimal number of excess deaths" or something "marginally more deadly" than the Flu.

[1] https://public.tableau.com/profile/dataviz8737#!/vizhome/sha...

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#142

Post by oneplane »

sutterbomb wrote: post #129
mobilefriendly wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$35 billion is an EXTRAORDINARY amount of money. It's the economic output of Vermont, a state with 630,000 people.

the US is an EXTRAORDINARY large country. It has a population >500x greater than the state of Vermont, a state with 630,000 people.

I wouldn't call it EXTRAORDINARY (especially not all-caps) when you know there are countries like Russia, Canada and China.

The only extraordinary thing would be the wealth distribution vs market value of the USA.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#143

Post by sokoloff »

fortran77 wrote: post #126
o-__-o wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think ppl are starting to realize that running a country is hard work and not something that should be left to someone in their armchair behind a computer screen...

I'm not going to be at risk. There's a difference between "someone in their armchair behind a computer screen" and looking at reports issued by the Government saying "CPAP is dangerous for people in the area" and raising a question about why it's allowed in areas that are regulated by the Government, like commercial airline cabins.

Should we ban CPAP users from other forms of public transportation as well? From being in public entirely?

It’s a tough question, nowhere near clear-cut, but I lean strongly away from banishing them.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#144

Post by Zenbit_UX »

vikramkr wrote: post #5

Over the past few years a series of American agencies have lost their reputation and world standing. The FAA with the 737 max, the CDC with the test, the FDA with testing regulation and hydroxychloroquine. Its important to have institutions that work, but we've spent years deliberately gutting them and undervaluing them. All that money spent on the military and homeland security, and in the end we were caught utterly…

Don't forget that cretin, Ajit Pai, with the FCC and the net neutrality disaster.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#145

Post by BoiledCabbage »

ransom1538 wrote: post #25
icegreentea2 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'd make a stronger argument by instead of making a military or other things argument, and just make a 'fund other things more' argument. The reason I think you should stay away from pointing fingers, especially at a relatively divisive issue like military or especially aircraft carrier funding is because then you shift a question of "should American be world leading in commercial air travel regulation, pan…

I love this "half of annual discretionary spending". It is designed to confuse the fact that military spending is only %15. [1] https://www.kff.org/medicare/issue-brief/the-facts-on-medica...

If you're going to have a discussion about federal spending, it's important that you understand the difference between discretionary and non-discretionary spending and why both are relevant. As well as understand what spending expenses have revenue (ie taxes) tied to them and which ones don't.

I'm not going to be proscriptive here and argue for either. But simply leave it at make sure you understand the key factors / attributes of income and spending beyond just a pie chart.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#146

Post by ethanbond »

glitchc wrote: post #137
ethanbond wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are divided on what the US military‘s role in the world should be and how much money it should take to uphold that role. Sitting atop the longest stretch of global stability (largely enforced/maintained by the US military), it’s very hard to think clearly about what variables we can or should fiddle with.

> Sitting atop the longest stretch of global stability (largely enforced/maintained by the US military), it’s very hard to think clearly about what variables we can or should fiddle with. Yes, if you only count the 20th century. Apparently the human race is only 100 years old. It’s time you read some history.

I mean... here’s Europe alone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe?wp...

I’d be very keen to learn about a particular period, or multiple, of an earth without large scale armed conflict (obviously controlling for difference in scale over time).

Could you point me to a few?

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#147

Post by philwelch »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #69
endogui wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is filling the role of the Roman Empire, securing trade routes to allow efficient scales of tech expertise and production. If that military is scaled back or shown to be obsolete/ineffectual, then globalism itself will come into question. The dark ages were caused by the localizing of production, with local feifdoms losing access to specialized technical expertise. To some extent, this is what we see now with…

> The US is filling the role of the Roman Empire Yeah, and look how that ended. In fact, its entirely apt cautionary tale because due to taxes and an ever increasing cost of living in Rome proper citizen-soldiers (during the Republic) often went bankrupt and fell into destitute while fighting campaigns from Rome's conquest and returned to see the oligarchy take their fields/land and displaced them further and further…

> Are you seriously suggesting that if the US empire scaled back its efforts in those regions then we'd return to the dark ages?

No, we’d probably return to the era of world wars.

> Because when I was in Europe Somali pirates were hi-jacking oil tankers and the US didn't intervene, it took the European companies and military to put an end to that entirely by themselves without the need of US involvement.

What?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_off_the_coast_of_Soma... :

> In the late 2000s, anti-piracy coalition known as Combined Task Force 150, including 33 different nations, established a Maritime Security Patrol Area in the Gulf of Aden. By 2010, these patrols were paying off, with a steady drop in the number of incidents.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Task_Force_150 :

> Countries presently contributing to CTF-150 include Australia, Canada, Denmark,[1] France, Pakistan, Japan, Germany, the United Kingdom and the United States. Other nations who have participated include Italy, India, Malaysia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Portugal, Singapore, Spain, Thailand and Turkey. The command of the task force rotates among the different participating navies, with commands usually lasting between four and six months. The task force usually comprises 14 or 15 ships.[2] CTF-150 is coordinated by the Combined Maritime Forces (CMF), a 33-nation coalition operating from the US Navy base in Manama, Bahrain.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Task_Force_151 :

> On 8 January 2009, at the United States Fifth Fleet headquarters in Manama, Bahrain, Vice Admiral William E. Gortney, USN, announced the formation of CTF-151 to combat the piracy threat off Somalia, with Rear Admiral Terence E. McKnight in command.

> I just hope we can attain a position where the World doesn't need superpowers and can return to at least a mutually beneficial city-state model

That will mean war.

Within a single country, government serves the purpose of providing a monopoly on the legitimate use of force. This monopoly is an impediment for the otherwise random violence people would live under. Internationally, the same is true for superpowers.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#148

Post by ethanbond »

bjlorenzen wrote: post #118
ethanbond wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are divided on what the US military‘s role in the world should be and how much money it should take to uphold that role. Sitting atop the longest stretch of global stability (largely enforced/maintained by the US military), it’s very hard to think clearly about what variables we can or should fiddle with.

The globe might feel stable while sitting inside the US and reading domestic media sources, but it sure hasn’t been easy for the dozens of countries we’ve been invading/occupying for the past decades.

I think the reverse. The globe is relatively stable, and there are pockets of instability, some of which are the fault of the US.

Of course this is all a challenging exercise (which is my only real point) since we don’t have counterfactuals for any of these scenarios.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#150

Post by pinkfoot »

Covzire wrote: post #130
bjlorenzen wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The globe might feel stable while sitting inside the US and reading domestic media sources, but it sure hasn’t been easy for the dozens of countries we’ve been invading/occupying for the past decades.

If we're making sweeping generalizations, then countries with stable benevolent governments who don't threaten their neighbors / the US and fund terrorism don't get invaded or occupied either. To be clear, I'm not saying every foreign policy action the US has undertaken in the last few decades has been superb.

If we're making sweeping generalizations, then countries that don't project military power to prop up dodgy regimes and enforce their currency on major commodities don't get targetted by terrorist action. To be clear, I'm not saying every action that resistance organisations and foreign governments have taken in the last few decades has been superb.

:) :)

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